Cleat failure who is responsible?

[Sheemgal]

Cleat failure on marina, whose fault is it?

We all pay a lot for mooring of boats in marina(s) but when something happens in the marina that is outside of our control and outside of our responsibility such as the cleat that is on the dock fails under human loads (sweating by hand) who is responsible and Who must take the liability in case of injury.

for yachts:


https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...407/min176.pdf

[SURV69]

Huh?

Can you explain the last three choices just a little bit?

ANYWAY ... I would generally say the marina owns the cleat and along with ownership comes responsibility.

But if the boater is aware that the cleat has been compromised somehow and says nothing to the marina ... then, I'm not so sure.

[Sheemgal]

Oh yes.

Ok the cleat no one knew about.

The wal.com cleat just failed under a bit of load but not enough to NOT be able to sweat ihe lifht bow in between two cleats on a floating pontoon. Rated for 1 tonne they break at 5-6, according to an engineer at Wal.com but 20 odd years...! Perhaps they need to be replaced more often.

I have come stern to into a dock used the same cleats and used mooring winches and engine assist and they dont just rip apart.

Basically if every cleat failed as easy as this cleat then we wouldn't tie our boats up using cleats.

Ps tough with using voice dictation to get the spelling right coupled with fat finger syndrome on phone.

[sailjumanji]

I think if you are in a US marina, and look at the leasing agreement you signed, you will find that the marina is not legally responsible for any damage to your boat in any instance.

[Sheemgal]

Hi no boat damage but damage to crew of nearby yacht asked to help owner who was struggling to park his boat as a result of the cleat on the marina pontoon failing

[SURV69]

Not legally responsible ... in any way?

really ... in any way?

Maybe a little like the disclaimer on the back of a sports ticket?



I think this comes under the category of what does the judge say?

[thinwater]

And that is why we have insurance. Your insurance hunts down the marina if they have been negligent. That said, a good marina will step-up. I've known Herrington Harbor to jump right in and pay for things without a word.

As an engineer, I can't imagine designing a cleat placement that was not strong enough to break any nylon/polyester rope attached to it. If someone ripped off a cleat with a Dyneema line I would feel differently, as they are not used for yacht mooring.

And yet I know damn well the cleats at my marina are no where close to that standard. I'm glad we are way up the creek.

[JPA Cate]

Sheemgal,

Pay the money and speak with a solicitor (UK) or a lawyer (US) if the injured crew is thinking of suit.

Generally speaking, with maritime law, blame is apportioned between the involved parties.

In the US, with civil law, it's (IMO) a crapshoot.

What I personally think is that the person who asked for the assistance is responsible if the helper was injured doing what the asker wanted. It was possibly a true accident where no one knew the cleat might fail, that no one was aware it was cracked. It is also possible someone had reported it to the marina. There are too many variables to reach a good decision, and discussing issues like this on the internet can leave an e-trail that works to the detriment of the injured party (or parties).

Ann

[CampDavid]

Why is everything somebody elses fault. I guess when I grew up we were told to be careful, to look around and be aware of possible danger and to remember that life happens while we make plans.

A way too many lawyers in this world that are not busy enough doing real work.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[zeehag]

dock cleats are responsibility of marina, HOWEVER, it is YOUR responsibility to advise the marina of potential fail points, such as loose cleats and damages to dock ...
take pix if possible.
the old addage BUYER BEWARE goes double in renting marina space.
be smart--inspect everything and report to marina as the responsibility party for your boat is yourself...be aware.
if marina chooses not to repair loose cleats, then report to some higher agency-- owners of marina, as opposed to the manager.

[dbaoter]

While interesting question, Not enough information to answer intelligently.
is the "pontoon", a boat of the dock, pier, wharf?

Not heard of a floating dock, referred to as a pontoon.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by CampDavid

Why is everything somebody elses fault. I guess when I grew up we were told to be careful, to look around and be aware of possible danger and to remember that life happens while we make plans.

A way too many lawyers in this world that are not busy enough doing real work.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

That all sounds good in theory, but what if you just purchased a brand new car and on the way home from the dealership the brakes fail and you smash into another car. What if you just purchased a new set of tires and on the way home one falls off and again you smash into another car?

You going to take responsibility for these or go back to the dealer and ask them to stand behind their work and product?

[skipmac]

Regarding the original question, I agree there doesn't seem to be enough information. Also will very much depend on the laws of the place where the incident occurred.

In general

- a marina or any other business is responsible for the condition and safety of the equipment and premises, especially equipment that is directly involved in the business or service they provide, like a cleat at a marina where boats are expected to be tied up.

- That does not absolve the customers from all liability. For example if you were using a small cleat at the dinghy dock to tie up a 50' power boat and the cleat failed then obviously there would be liability on your part.

- if the cleat used was obviously intended for the purpose at hand and failed then one would think the liability would go back to the marina. If the cleat was defective then it would be between the marina and the manufacturer of the cleat to resolve.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

What I personally think is that the person who asked for the assistance is responsible if the helper was injured doing what the asker wanted.

Bingo...
We go to the public pump out dock pretty much like clockwork every weekend and every time we approach the dock the tourists watching us come in always rush over to help and take a dock line. My entire crew knows to NEVER...EVER...hand them the line! We politely tell them to please stand back. They usually don't listen and insist on thinking they can be of help in pushing on a 55,000lb boat while holding their Starbucks coffee in one hand. It's not because I'm arrogant and think I'm an ace in docking our Hudson Force 50...but because I know unskilled "helpers" have a better chance of getting hurt than actually helping.

[SpiritofGlenans]

Originally Posted by dbaoter

While interesting question, Not enough information to answer intelligently.
is the "pontoon", a boat of the dock, pier, wharf?

Not heard of a floating dock, referred to as a pontoon.

Unfortunately this is a symptom of the differences between the languages we like to call "English" on opposite sides of the Atlantic. To the inhabitants of the British Isles a pontoon is a floating component of a marina, whereas docks and quays are generally made of stone. Piers while originally made of stone , (the word "pier" is French for "stone"!), can sometimes be also made of wood, as can wharfs.
To us, a "floating dock" is something which, when filled with water a boat or ship can be sailed into. It is then closed and the water pumped out so that the bottom of the ship can be worked on.
A "slip" is a ramp which is used for launching boats on trailers.
I am constantly amused by the term "bottom paint" to refer to what we call "antifouling". Whenever I come across it I can visualise the person painting their ass (we say arse!), blue