A Rant . . . OK, a Moan

[Joli]

That sounds like a nightmare. Ugh.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Don1500

The problem with a "Gold List" is if someone is recommended, and is taken on board based on that recommendation, and turns into "The crew member from Hell" will the "Gold List" website be held liable? I see a big law suit in the works. Of course 1-800-Dentist does this sort of thing, too, and they must have liability insurance. So there must be a legal way around it.

Black and Gold lists are both attempts to make a tricky task simple, painless and definitive. Liability and law suits aside, when reading a blacklist who was really the problem? Was the crew really bad, was there just a personality conflict that had nothing to do with the crew's real abilities and diligence or was the skipper so bad that they couldn't recognize good crew when they had one, or was the skipper just a vindictive *******/bitch? When reading a goldlist was the crew really good, is the skipper just an overly generous person or is the skipper using the goldlist to help unload a bad crew?

Both lists seem to me to be a means of avoiding the ackwardness of asking for references and the chore of tracking down those references and then reading between the lines of the replies you get, because you know you will never get a strait up answer because skippers are still worried about lawsuits though they will try to let you know obliquely (sp?).

[Opie91]

Sorry to hear about your nightmare. Too bad you could not repay her by dropping some pot off at her house at a opportune time.

As for the friend I would say a call to his wife is in order. He has it coming.......

[SurferShane]

Originally Posted by Don1500

The problem with a "Gold List" is if someone is recommended, and is taken on board based on that recommendation, and turns into "The crew member from Hell" will the "Gold List" website be held liable? ....,,,, So there must be a legal way around it.

The problem I foresee in this is that the social contract for passage can all of a sudden might be construed as a commercial contract that places even more responsibilities and liabilities on the skipper (noting as in the original post these people tend to come up with all sorts of bizarre claims after things have colloquially “turned to shit”). Maybe best to just set a few basic boat (social) rules and drop any offenders at the next port?

[Sam Plan B]

You have found the origin of the Jonah legend. A boat at sea is it's own little world. Everyone is dependent on each other, yes, even for their own survival. A crewperson exhibiting the kind of anti-social behavior of which you write not only is a danger to the vessel but is a danger to themself. If pushed far enough, the other crew may respond with passive-aggressive behavior. That is, allow the self distructive crew to self distruct (let the woman burn). If pushed even farther the other crew may react more directly with tragic results for all. Yes, you should post the woman's name. Her future crew have a right to know and to take her on ---at their own risk.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Adelie

Both lists seem to me to be a means of avoiding the ackwardness of asking for references and the chore of tracking down those references and then reading between the lines of the replies you get, because you know you will never get a strait up answer because skippers are still worried about lawsuits though they will try to let you know obliquely (sp?).

Putting folk on lists (black or gold) just creates the illusion (self-delusion?) of action for those seeking to avoid responsibility for their own (in)actions. "something must be done!"

errr.........how about asking for and then following up on references? get some personal background / employment history / travel experiances / some future plans and throw in a few Google searches on the prospective crew and past boats. They on facebook? ask to be a freind ..........or maybe even pay for professional crew - no guarantee of course, but more likely to be competent and with verifiable references.

If anyone wants to start a black list please include me. As if ever onboard with a Skipper who subscribed to such a thing I would take the opportunity to explain my objections to the lazy dimwitted cheapskate . bluntly. and continuously Could be a long 2 weeks

FWIW I think OP has handled the aftermath well (with hindsight I am sure also wondering how things got that far - but as we all know, sometimes situations just develop) - I wouldn't publically name & shame, but I would go around to the home of the "freind" - in a rage , and let slip that the ex-crew was his g/f............in front of wife obviously

[Bash]

Originally Posted by Opie91

As for the friend I would say a call to his wife is in order. He has it coming.......

No. Absolutely not.

Far better to send her the link to this thread.

CC him, of course.

[captainKJ]

when you have a chance could you please post her email address,,, i think we all have some emails that we would like to send to her

PLEASE POST IT

[Mariness]

Are you allowed to leave someone on the dock in a foreign country? That would be my preference too, but ... I have this suspicion that the government of said nation would be unwilling to allow you to deposit someone on their shores - if you were responsible for getting them into the country, aren't the officials there going to consider you responsible for getting them out as well?

[captainKJ]

bring em in you have to GET them out or they will hold your boat, If you leave someone there they will track you down,,,,

immigration and customs do not like when you leave someone in a foreign country, captain and owner will go to jail or have a large fine and might lose there boat

[Bash]

Originally Posted by Mariness

Are you allowed to leave someone on the dock in a foreign country? That would be my preference too, but ... I have this suspicion that the government of said nation would be unwilling to allow you to deposit someone on their shores - if you were responsible for getting them into the country, aren't the officials there going to consider you responsible for getting them out as well?

Think about it this way: in your country, how would INS officials look upon yachties who pulled in with a dozen aliens and suddenly decided to leave without them?

Works the same way when you're the alien.

[Event_Horizon]

Having the repairs paid for is easy! Go ask your acquaintance to cover the bill...if he refuses, let him know how deeply concerned you are about his taste in women. So concerned, in fact, that you feel obligated to tell his wife...who knows what sort of diseases these back ally types are transmitting these days. She'd probably be very interested in information that would save her an embarrassing doctors visit and (at best) a penicillin diet.

[SurferShane]

Originally Posted by Mariness

Are you allowed to leave someone on the dock in a foreign country?

First surf trip as a kid I had trouble with some travelling companions mainly after they conned me of my last few bucks to buy dope, so I drove off and left them about 300 km up the coast. I did not really care that they had no money to get home as likewise I had been left penniless with a near empty tank. That was one of my first and last trips in company.

Nor did it come as a huge surprise to me when the real troublemaker was recently “murdered” (noting the alleged killer was found not guilty). I don’t think its good karma celebrating someone’s death, but I would hope that these people could take some sort of responsibility for their actions. In a cruising context at least you would expect them to travel with valid passport and enough funds for a ticket home?

Nowadays, I might come over as a bit anti-social and somewhat fiercely independent, but after suffering these sorts of experiences I have good reason to enjoy single-handed sailing.

[Pelagic]

Fishwife, I know from the title … A Rant….Ok a Moan!

That you have done this,…. recognized your mistake and simply moved on,

There is nothing else you can do but learn that this person was simply a bad mistake, take notes on how to avoid repeating and forget about her. She deserves no more of your time.

[Sam Plan B]

Fishwife said in her original post "It was ten days before she was fit to fly, then I bought her a plane ticket home, gave her money for a train ticket from the airport and extra for a cab home from the station."

So the recent whinging over crew repatriation is misplaced.