Yachties deported from NZ

[Compass790]

Originally Posted by fxykty

You’re still claiming BS regarding everyone with $50K can just waltz in with an automatic exemption. That’s NOT the way it is worded in law. Here’s the source: COVID-19 Public Health Response (Maritime Border) Order (No 2) 2020 (LI 2020/240) 11 Director-General may permit ships to arrive in New Zealand despite clause 9 – New Zealand Legislation

And copying the relevant exemption text:
“11 Director-General may permit ships to arrive in New Zealand despite clause 9
(1)
The Director-General may give permission for a ship to arrive in New Zealand if the Director-General is reasonably satisfied that the ship meets 1 or more of the following requirements:
(a)
the ship has a compelling need to arrive in New Zealand for the purpose of—
(i)
reprovisioning or refuelling, or both; or
(ii)
delivering the ship to a business; or
(iii)
carrying out a refit or a refurbishment of, or a repair to, the ship that is more than minor:
(b)
the ship has a compelling need to arrive in New Zealand for humanitarian reasons.
(2)
If the Director-General gives permission under subclause (1), the Director-General—
(a)
may require the ship’s master or its agent to provide the Director-General with an isolation or quarantine plan; and
(b)
may, as a condition of the permission, require the persons on board the ship to comply with an isolation or quarantine plan; and
(c)
may specify any other conditions to the permission that the Director-General considers necessary.”

Refer to the next section, 12, for the information the Director General must consider before granting an exemption based on 11.1.a.ii or iii. It’s not a gimme.

The “more than minor” in 11.1.a.iii has been explained to mean NZD50K or more. This isn’t promised or in a bank account but shown in estimates by the contracted marine service provider(s). And those service providers are liable if the work estimates used to gain the exemption are much higher than actual work done.

If a cruising boat with non-NZ citizens/residents on board gains an exemption and arrives legally in NZ then I assume they would be treated the same as a cruising boat with NZ citizens on board (no exemption for entry needed) arriving. In either case I believe that there is no isolation or quarantine on board and that the crews must enter the usual managed isolation regime.

Where did I say they gain an automatic exemption?
It's just to be considered for one, a starting point if you will.

Nice try attempting to muddy the waters with a lot of extraneous detail.


Ask for a list of those who have gained an exemption without having the 50k commitment? Won't take long to read.



I'm sure come AC cup time there will be some who are quite happy to pay the 50k even if they dont want any work done as thats probably one or two days expenses. It will just be a box tick exercise.

I say again they are talking about letting the crew isolate on the superlaunches in the dedicated facility come AC time.



My point is it's not the same for every arriving vessel.
Those with a large bank a/c are treated differently Just as the Saudis who flew in & out in their private jet were treated differently.

[Island Time O25]

For me it is not just how easy the veneer of democracy was cast aside in favor of "dealing with the emergency situation" but the fact that the governments are not not even pretending to represent "the little guy" as they did for the past 100 years, at least outwardly.

Don't know much about NZ but here in US the absolute top 0.01% of the super rich are clear winners so far and by far. And the middle 40-60% of the population are clear losers with the bottom 20-40% not really affected financially as they are one way or another on the gov't dole and don't make their living from honest wages anyway. Gives me pause to think who this "quarantine regime" was really created for.

[Boatguy30]

People in the bottom 40% don't earn an honest living?

What does that have to do with these guys anyway?

[BigAl.NZ]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

If you have an e-passport, as people from ~120 countries do, and certainly nearly all “first world” citizens do, the first thing that happens when an immigration official holds that passport over an RFID reader is a check of an Interpol database for any “interesting” information about you and/or your passport (are you a fugitive? is your passport reported lost, stolen, or invalid?). The world is pretty connected.

Here’s what a processor of US passports has to say:

+1 on that - heaps of countries share information and if you have a black mark in the USA for example (like if you overstayed), you may also be refused entry to NZ etc etc.

[Chuckie]

Unfortunately the world over is experiencing painful change, it is always going to hurt financially and I guess we can be great full to have the ability to take advantage of the extended freedoms with owning a boat. Now is however not the time to be taking risks or gamble. Governments are not interested in difference opinions and agencies will generally work to the letter of the Law. Dingo, we Kiwis got over the Rainbow Warrior Bombing after the capture and imprisonment of the perportrators. You seem to have a Beef with us, we're you denied entry....

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by IslandHopper

Thats simple here in Aus and im pretty sure it will be similar in NZ....

When quarantined you are isolated from EVERYONE, that includes others sharing the same facility and as the vast majority of marina's have shared amenities this makes it impossible as far as isolation requirements goes.......so the idea of a dedicated marina fails.....

Email received from my marina with the relevant statement......

Why would the crew of a self sufficient world cruising yacht need to share facilities? About once a week they might need to motor a couple of miles offshore to pump out the holding tank.

[IslandHopper]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

Why would the crew of a self sufficient world cruising yacht need to share facilities? About once a week they might need to motor a couple of miles offshore to pump out the holding tank.

When quarantined you don't go anywhere, you have to be checked upon, having everyone going off for a little day sail is not going to happen, have you not been keeping upto date with quarantine/isolation requirements??

Why do you think that the authorities won't accept that you have been isolated on your own boat for weeks/months on end before you arrive? there are enough examples that have proven that the general population can't be trusted to do the right thing, and because of those examples the majority suffer....

[barnakiel]

Well. If a country says 'pls do not come'. Then why do you go?


Action. Reaction. Result.


barnakiel

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by IslandHopper

When quarantined you don't go anywhere, you have to be checked upon, having everyone going off for a little day sail is not going to happen, have you not been keeping upto date with quarantine/isolation requirements??

Why do you think that the authorities won't accept that you have been isolated on your own boat for weeks/months on end before you arrive? there are enough examples that have proven that the general population can't be trusted to do the right thing, and because of those examples the majority suffer....

At seventy six years of age with a number of the health problems age brings I am a member of the group most at risk. However, I am willing to accept the very small risk in allowing these world cruisers to make port in Australia.

I am pretty disgusted with the responses to this health hazard, tending to the opinion that much of the responses have been motivated by a combination of xenophobia and political opportunism rather than the result of a proper risk assessment.

Just today we learn that the Victoria'n government has now mandated covid tests for workers in old peoples homes. Considering that the great majority of the deaths attributed to the virus are related to these places I find that both astounding and disgusting and am now of the opinion that the whole damned mess of that state government should be put on trial for criminal negligence.

These folks are not making frivolous decisions to go on a jaunt to New Zealand or Australia they just don't want to be obliged to have themselves or their vessels placed at excessive risks from cyclones. It should not be beyond the capabilities of our governments to devise a means of accommodating them in this legitimate desire.

[IslandHopper]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

At seventy six years of age with a number of the health problems age brings I am a member of the group most at risk. However, I am willing to accept the very small risk in allowing these world cruisers to make port in Australia.

But you see that’s a problem for you as an individual, the vast majority of the population are not willing to take that risk especially with the elder members of their family, in fact I would challenge anyone to go out and find someone who would be willing to risk the health of their nearest and dearest no matter how small the risk. It is extremely easy (and largely irrelevant) to state I am willing to risk my own health, it is completely another to state I am willing to risk other’s….

I do not know of anyone who is enjoying the border closures/lockdowns/quarantine/isolation situation, but most understand and accept it as the necessary upheaval to their lives it is……

Originally Posted by RaymondR

These folks are not making frivolous decisions to go on a jaunt to New Zealand or Australia they just don't want to be obliged to have themselves or their vessels placed at excessive risks from cyclones. It should not be beyond the capabilities of our governments to devise a means of accommodating them in this legitimate desire.

But who pays for it? there has already been much moaning and groaning on CF about having to pay for their own quarantine and boat storage costs. We have crew that have to fly from Victoria to the NT 16 days prior to joining ship because they are subject to Mandatory Supervised Quarantine for 14 days, we have crew from WA that after finishing their swing and returning home from the NT have to spend 14 days in self isolation having the cops randomly drop around to check on them.....that’s just so they can travel to work and back within Australia's borders....the costs are been shared between the employees and our employer, but basically plenty of people around the country are having to pay just to go to work, and lets not get into the discussion of how many poor buggers have lost jobs through COVID-19….

So again, will all these Cruisers potentially coming to the party pay their own way, or are the taxpayers expected to cover their costs?? I have no problem with providing safe harbour, but they pay there own way, or keep on sailing…..

[roverhi]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Well. If a country says 'pls do not come'. Then why do you go?
Action. Reaction. Result.
barnakiel

How about because they want to stay alive. Being stuck on a boat in places like Fiji during the cyclone season puts your life as well as property at risk. The most logical and traditional way to avoid it is sail the boat to NZ or Oz. The passage is an enforced quarantine for most boats so not a risk for them to be taken in.

[barnakiel]

Except that the story is not about Covid risk or November elections.


It is a bout people who refuse to accept the fact that there are rules and we ALL are bound to accept the them. (It is OK not to like these rules, criticize the rules, but it is risky business to break the rules).



NZ clearly said PLS do NOT come.


So pls do not go.


It does not matter if the reason is Covid or Jacinda's headache. They say do not and they mean DO NOT.


What a bunch of politicized bananas are you guys!


PS We lived in NZ. It is a neatly policied state. They are strict. They are open and transparent in what rules they have. They may be nearly as strict as AUS and US are. Swallow it. Stop fooling around thinking NZ officers will close one eye when you arrive. They will not.



barnakiel

[NaClyDog]

Originally Posted by roverhi

How about because they want to stay alive. Being stuck on a boat in places like Fiji during the cyclone season puts your life as well as property at risk. The most logical and traditional way to avoid it is sail the boat to NZ or Oz. The passage is an enforced quarantine for most boats so not a risk for them to be taken in.

But when refugees do this, they are very often simply deported or held in detention.


Why should those who own a boat be treated any differently?

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by roverhi

How about because they want to stay alive. Being stuck on a boat in places like Fiji during the cyclone season puts your life as well as property at risk. The most logical and traditional way to avoid it is sail the boat to NZ or Oz. The passage is an enforced quarantine for most boats so not a risk for them to be taken in.

The brief info gleaned via noonsite does not seem to suggest there was any immediate life threat on that specific German boat.


Or does it?


I will swallow my shoe and apologize, if it does. So now I am off to read that snippet again. Maybe I missed the most important part of the story.


barnakiel

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by roverhi

How about because they want to stay alive. Being stuck on a boat in places like Fiji during the cyclone season puts your life as well as property at risk. The most logical and traditional way to avoid it is sail the boat to NZ or Oz. The passage is an enforced quarantine for most boats so not a risk for them to be taken in.

OK.


Look. I went to that noonsite snip again. I did not find any info on life threats on the German boat. I did not know such an info emerged further down this thread.


I thought they were just another case of people sailing to NZ despite NZ clearly saying to not come this year.


Threat from cyclones is something we are faced with as cruising sailors, Polynesia, West Indies or Florida. And there are many other places one can be in So Pacific to evade their tracks.



barnakiel