Pirates operating in Southern Ocean........

[Jimbo485]

Originally Posted by cat man do

Right, so they ARE breaking the law despite what you said earlier.

And of those that are, the Japanese buy many of their votes.
http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/conte...0/s2930189.htm

For scientific NOT food purposes.

What law are they breaking? Please provide a link to the actual law that forbids eating whale meat, cat man do.

I realise it is all legal twisting and turning. The primary "official" reason to hunt legally is science. But where does it say how the whales must be disposed of, following dissection and scientific research? Incinerated, buried, eaten, supermarket shelves? I can't find the detail. Can you, CMD?

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by micah719

Start a rumour that eating whalemeat shrinks your Willy....the Flee Willy Syndrome.

From what I hear I doubt they could get any smaller...

[ElGatoGordo]

Originally Posted by cat man do

It's interesting to note that some of those that support the Japanese and think its OK to kill whales have guns.

Just sayin...

One, that non-answer means you have none, and two, I've clearly said their both wrong...and have guns

[Dsanduril]

Originally Posted by mcarling

No, the UNCLOS definition of piracy requires that the acts in question must be committed for private ends, while Sea Shepard is acting for public ends. This is the error in the judge's ruling.

While you and they may think that the actions are for the "public" good, from a legal perspective they are private citizens acting privately. Private citizens acting privately can still do things for the communal (public) good, but it is still private action. To be a public action would require sanction by a government. And that would then make the Sea Shepherds privateers rather than pirates.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Jimbo485

......
I realise it is all legal twisting and turning. The primary "official" reason to hunt legally is science. But where does it say how the whales must be disposed of, following dissection and scientific research? Incinerated, buried, eaten, supermarket shelves? I can't find the detail. Can you, CMD?

Oh heck, I tried to stay outta this one.

On the legal side, yes they can take the 1,000 whales for scientific and research reasons - no argument (legally). After that they can presumably dispose of the remains as they see fit.

However, if there is no research and advancement of genuine scientific understanding, then what they are doing is legally wrong.

Of course that doesn't matter (legally) if no one gets them before a court (and what court?).

Morally - different kettle of fish and I will stay outta that one today

[bobconnie]

Well I consider myself to be part of the public, and the Sea shepherd are sure not working for me !! In fact I feel as part of the worlds Public, they are harming me as I would sure hate to be trying to cruise the southern ocean in the middle of this stupid war !! Both sides are wrong ! but thats always the way of war !! anywhere ! Ive been in a couple of those before and sure don't want to ever be in a war zone again !! just my 2 cents

[avb3]

Originally Posted by captain58sailin

............ There is no need to hunt the whales, it is wrong, whether a court says so or not.

You may be right, however, does that allow Watson and crew to endanger seamen's lives at sea?

[minaret]

I find it really entertaining that the majority of this thread is neatly and hilariously summed up in the one minute video I posted at the beginning.


I really like the end, when after they have tricked the Japanese into thinking that cows and pigs piloted the Enola Gay, since their earlier lie about dolphins and whales having done it backfired, the Japanese begin to slaughter cows and pigs instead. Stan's dad looks at him and says " good job son, now the Japanese are normal, just like us". Priceless. Pigs are smarter than whales you know, but since they taste oh so good...

[downunder]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

tcg-
I'm not comparing Lisa Simpson to you, or vice versa. She is, topically, a poster girl for conserving all sorts of things including whales.

So you're saying, it is OK to hunt and kill and eat, unless the victim is from an endangered species? If we could raise the whales in captivity, then it would OK to use them for dog food? No, I don't think that is what you mean, I say it because the extinction criteria is only one of several arbitrary ones.

And yes, I do think the WWF aggrandized themselves. "Bronx Zoo" was good enough until they decided to start big time fund raising. If they are conserving endangered species because that's good for business--say so. If it is for empathy with other species, well...there's that hot dog cart, and I'm told pigs are just as loveable as dogs, once you get past the "thousand pounds and will eat anything" bit.

I don't see any purpose to the whaling and the Japanese plea of "cultural" doesn't impress me any more than their sun-god-emperor did. Then again, I think paying a basketball player (a corporate franchise employee?!) ten million a year makes no sense either. I'm so easily puzzled by these things.

Yes

The WWF are the most self richious, stuck up , know all mob. In Australia they attempt to embed themselves with government to achieve their aims. ie The Coral Sea Marine National Park. Will protect Tuna etc from fishing in the Coral Sea and put Australian fishermen out of business only to be caught when they move north to PNG and Asia to be caught by Thai and others. Net result we import more fish, Smart. So the Industry ends up answering to them as much as Govt.

Will also mean we as cruisers can't fish when we are in the area.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by cat man do

Right, so they ARE breaking the law despite what you said earlier.

It's only an agreement between members of the IWC (International Whaling Commission) - not a law.

If it was a law there would also be a court that could decide on cases and issue judgements, then penalties on any wrongdoers and then arrange enforcement internationally (boots on the ground or simply fines).......but there are none of those, because it is not a law......one of the side effects of not having a World Government (and be careful what you wish for on international laws, especially when it involves "morality" - "you" (and your views of what is normal / acceptable) will be in a minority of numbers).

Arguably the Japanese are breaking the agreement, in spirit if not in fact - but, it's only an agreement and with no penalties then so what? It's legal......the Japanese could simply leave the IWC and the ban would no longer apply to them at all - and therefore they could kill every last whale for commercial reasons (dog food?!) 100% legally. But they don't. and given that the whale stocks do appear to be recovering then it is a non issue and only of concern to those who favour whales over goats (goatists ).

[charliehows]

who gives a rats what some court in the US thinks, we won again, the japs go home without doing what they wanted to and sooner or later they'll give up altogether

[mcarling]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

While you and they may think that the actions are for the "public" good, from a legal perspective they are private citizens acting privately. Private citizens acting privately can still do things for the communal (public) good, but it is still private action. To be a public action would require sanction by a government. And that would then make the Sea Shepherds privateers rather than pirates.

I have two LLMs in international law and I teach international law. You are confusing public/private actors with public/private ends. You sound like someone who has never seen a boat (except on TV) lecturing professional mariners about sailing. There is a long legal tradition that piracy involves material self-enrichment. You don't have to agree with, approve of, or accept what Sea Shepard are doing, but it does not meet the definition of piracy in international law.

[DennisM]

Uh oh. Now we got the lawyers involved. See what you guys started?

[captain58sailin]

I hold a letter of Marque from the sovereign nation of Alaska, that allows me to board your vessel, drink your beer & rum and eat what ever leftovers there are in the cooler.

[Blue Crab]

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