FL is voting to ban anchoring today

[hellosailor]

"but just smart enough to move all traces like HINs and other identifying marks. "

Come on, Stu.


We all should know by now that CIS is just Hollywood...but do you really think Mr. Numbnuts, who took all the marks off his boat, REALLY cleaned the stern down enough to remove the ghosts of past naming? Or, that the Florida DMV records couldn't be searched, by computer in less than fifteen minutes, to find all registrations and sales of same model boats in the last five years? One of which would point to Mr. Numbnuts? Even if his fingerprints and hair and DNA from sweat aren't all over the interior? Or, the past owner's DNA?
Yeah, it would take a competent detective or researcher a whole day or two to get the process started, and a couple of weeks to get the information back, but in this day and age? "Eh, no one left their phone number" is NOT a reason to say you can't identify the boat and the owner.
Post a $10,000 reward for "information leading to " and see if some local boatyard, marina, or broker doesn't all of a sudden remember seeing that boat, or seeing the guy working on stripping it down.
This is just the Florida way of doing things: Claiming they are technologically impossible (while other states have been solving the same problem for 40 years), or too expensive (highway guardrails to prevent canal drownings) because the bottom line is that all this stuff requires skills (argue over FCATs and school testing for a decade, instead of demanding the kids get educated) and money, which requires taxes, and if you raised taxes, the snowbirds (who pay full taxes but only use 5 months of services, and get no homestead reduction on their property taxes either) wouldn't come down to pay outrageous prices, enriching the local real estate barons.


Hey, it's the way they want to do it, and that's their right. All these damned middle-class northern liberals who got suckered down and want to CHANGE things...that's the problem. Especially when they're loud-mouthed snowbirds with no right to vote anyway. (OOoops?)

[hellosailor]

fourwinds-
Florida requires a "boating safety course" for power boaters, with boaters of a certain age grandfathered out of it, but no exception for newer (younger) ones. It isn't terribly HARD...but then again, Florida also leads the nation in unlicensed, uninsured drivers on the road (officially, it is technologically impossible to find out when insurance is dropped, even though other states do it literally every day, within 24 hours of a policy being dropped) and has some of the easiest road tests in the nation, since there's so little public transportation that works.
But they HAVE moved to require some training. On the opposite end of the scale, NJ requires a safety certificate for everyone, or any age, that drives a mechanically propelled boat in their waters.
No big deal..fewer certificates mean more Darwinian evolution. Anyone who has seen an ocean and thinks it can never hurt them...That's how crabs get dinner, isn't it?

[a64pilot]

The Yankee comment is mostly in jest, yet travel around most anywhere in the South and you will find mobile homes right next door to mansions, we just don't get it, I guess, but get down in S Fl, and they don't want to riff raft, or whatever they call them, close by, they believe they have the right to force them out and do.
But if you have been around for long and your post sort of confirms it, among the first things people want to do to a place, is make it more like "Home". Joke has been for years that the Southern half of Fl is a suburb of New Jersey, except for Miami of course, which is a suburb of Cuba.

Don't worry, I stay out of S Fl, I don't belong there.
I do not believe that being from up North necessarily makes people think and act differently, but it sure seems like some that come down South come with an attitude.
Honestly some of the nicest people I've ever met in the US I met in Winter testing in Northern Wisconsin and Iowa.

Myself I do not want the Glades drained and developed, nor the Okefenokee, Bayous or the like for that matter. But do recognize that what I want is irrelevant.

When I was boat shopping I spent quite a bit of time in S Fl. and I could not stand the crowds, the standing in line even to get fast food, the traffic was horrendous. I am not a social person, do not like huge parties with shoulder to shoulder people bumping into each other. Loud people I don't like, and loud and rude?

What S Fl does anchoring wise except for me passing through has no effect on me, except for the precedence. I'll just be passing through.


Sent from my iPad Pro using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[hellosailor]

wrt draining the Glades?
I'm thinking "eutropification" but may have the word confused. In oceanography and geology they talk about how lakes eventually get filled in, by organic matter washing in off the land, and plant matter building up more sediment and pushing out the shoreline, and lakes eventually turning into swamps, which eventually will fill in the same way--unless there's a lot of water pushing through to overcome the natural process. Like the way the Mississippi builds huge new delta lands, and then cuts new channels to reach the sea anyway.


To me a swamp in perhaps the least attractive place to live. I'm told that's why it was available when the Seminoles went into hiding there. Folks who like gators and pythons and mosquitos, they're welcome to it, but apparently no one can quite figure out if they prefer mosquito borne diseases (on the rise) and some of the 'squitos fly 3 to 100 miles in search of fresh mammal blood. So, us Yankees just say "harvest the luggage and boots, drain the rest and pave it over."
That's actually a very firm PROconservation position. The species we're conserving, just happens to be us. The world changes. Central America used to be all underwater. The Straights of Gibraltar didn't exist, the Med didn't exist, there was dry land across from Europe to Africa. On the global scale? Filling in a swamp doesn't even make a blip.
And of course, as the sea level rises and all of SE Florida has more severe and constant flooding problems, the locals may just decide to preserve the swamp and become "boat people". Or, they may reconsider the concept of landfill.(G)

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by cruisersfarm

This is true.

I strive to keep the exterior of my boat looking immaculate.

It greatly affects the harassment you get (or don't get) at anchor.

That said, there are now 3 sunken boats within a swim's distance from my current location. All 3 sunk in the past few months. All absentee anchored.

That issue can easily be addressed by some kind of bond to be paid when registering a boat. Here in MA a real estate broker has to get a $5,000 bond before they are issued a license. The cost is $50 for 5 years. Something to that effect can work as a security against abandoned boats and will be more that enough to cover the cost of taking a bare hull to the dump with everything else to be striped by the hauler for re-sale. Don't think we'd collectively want to lose our freedoms when a $50 bond can protect us.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

I think Island Times post covers those guys (and every other polluter).

Of course. Plastic is plastic. If we want to use it we have to allocate who pays for its long term consequences. And this strategy will price the plastic according to its full impact on the environment which in turn will greatly diminish its attractiveness as an alternative to natural products. According to currently common "wisdom" and "market based price formulas" wooden or metal boats are "too expensive". But if you calculate for the long term costs of re-use/re-cycling all of a sudden our plastic boats are so much more expensive. Today's market mechanisms are truly broken and do not function to reflect the true costs of certain items so we end up with long term cheaper boat alternatives, i.e. wood, metal, costing much more than the more long term expensive plastic variants. A great example of a price of the free market product artificially altered and distorted.

[zboss]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

"but just smart enough to move all traces like HINs and other identifying marks. "

Come on, Stu.


We all should know by now that CIS is just Hollywood...but do you really think Mr. Numbnuts, who took all the marks off his boat, REALLY cleaned the stern down enough to remove the ghosts of past naming? Or, that the Florida DMV records couldn't be searched, by computer in less than fifteen minutes, to find all registrations and sales of same model boats in the last five years? One of which would point to Mr. Numbnuts? Even if his fingerprints and hair and DNA from sweat aren't all over the interior? Or, the past owner's DNA?
Yeah, it would take a competent detective or researcher a whole day or two to get the process started, and a couple of weeks to get the information back, but in this day and age? "Eh, no one left their phone number" is NOT a reason to say you can't identify the boat and the owner.
Post a $10,000 reward for "information leading to " and see if some local boatyard, marina, or broker doesn't all of a sudden remember seeing that boat, or seeing the guy working on stripping it down.
This is just the Florida way of doing things: Claiming they are technologically impossible (while other states have been solving the same problem for 40 years), or too expensive (highway guardrails to prevent canal drownings) because the bottom line is that all this stuff requires skills (argue over FCATs and school testing for a decade, instead of demanding the kids get educated) and money, which requires taxes, and if you raised taxes, the snowbirds (who pay full taxes but only use 5 months of services, and get no homestead reduction on their property taxes either) wouldn't come down to pay outrageous prices, enriching the local real estate barons.


Hey, it's the way they want to do it, and that's their right. All these damned middle-class northern liberals who got suckered down and want to CHANGE things...that's the problem. Especially when they're loud-mouthed snowbirds with no right to vote anyway. (OOoops?)

When our dinghy was stolen the Detective that recovered it had a very hard time finding and reaching us. Green Cove would not give out our info or even confirm that we had a box at the address; he ended up searching for us on google by our boat name and finding our blog and then used that to gather enough info to contact us.

We learned a very interesting thing:

Different offices and enforcement authorities do not share data effectively in Florida. The Detective in florida was with the city and did not have access to the data on other cities computer systems, nor do they have access to the county system, or the USCG system. We had filed our theft report with a different city and when he finally contacted us he had no idea we had filed a report with a different police.

GCS did contact us with the Detectives info though and we eventually got our dinghy back.

So, I believe that part of the "anchoring problem" is that the left hand doesn't even communicate with the right hand.

[Boathooked]

So if there was not enough resources/money to do anything about the abandoned boats, how is that changing with a ban on mooring? Did they include money/fees in this ban legislation?

[ASD]

FL House passes the bill and it moves forward.

Florida House passes anchoring restrictions bill | Trade Only Today

[ASD]

Well it would appear the bill has clear the state Senate and is on the Governor's desk for signature. I guess the Florida legislature and its Governor is for sale.....




Florida anchoring restrictions bill goes to governor | Trade Only Today

[hellosailor]

" I guess the Florida legislature and its Governor is for sale....."
You GUESS? Who's kidding, even in Alaska they've heard about what's commonly bought and sold in the continental 48. Or, perhaps you've never heard the line "Madam, we've already determined what you are, the only question now is the price."

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

...and [Florida] has some of the easiest road tests in the nation...

A bit off topic, but I couldn't resist. When I first moved to Florida (from Nebraska), back in the early 80s, I had to take the test. I was shocked at how easy it was.

One of the questions--I kid you not--showed a picture of a stop sign. Now, this was not just an octagonal outline, or anything like that. This was a stop sign, red with the word STOP clearly printed in the middle. The question asked, when you see this sign you should:
A) Proceed, you have the right of way.
B) Stop and proceed after yielding the right of way.
C) Yield, but proceed without stopping if there is no oncoming traffic.
D) None of the above.

Seriously!?! Is it even possible for a living, breathing, human being to be so completely brain-dead that they could get that one wrong?

But, despite all its short-comings (and I could write a book!), I have to admit that I love Florida.

[a64pilot]

Florida was until fairly recently a sparsely populated state with farming being a major industry.
Area around the Capitol and the Panhanlde still sort of is, heck even Central Fl when you get away from the beach.
Alabama I believe a vehicle has to have only one taillight operable and its not required to be a brake light, back in the day I guess old cars only had a taillight?
Georgia motorcycles don't have to have turn signals or didn't use to anyway.

Point is the South due to some extent because of population density is / was sort of backwards. That has changed of course,(population that is) but laws I guess haven't caught up, too busy passing anchoring restrictions I guess to update traffic laws?

Some call if FloriaDUH

[WindwardPrinces]

I know that Florida-bashing is a fun sport, but California has the most uninsured drivers by head count, and Oklahoma has the most by percentage, according to Pew Research, though the rate in Florida is very high.

States Look to Reduce Ranks of Uninsured Drivers

[sailorcherry]

Now there's an interesting history lesson. Nice!

Originally Posted by hellosailor

a64-
You should be aware that there's a difference between a "Yankee" and a "Damned Yankee". Ever since the Civil War and carpetbaggers, a "Damned Yankee" has been defined as one that marries your daughter, or perhaps not, AND THEN TAKES HER AWAY BACK UP NORTH.
Otherwise, we're just Yankees, damned or otherwise.


We do things like drain swamps in order to stop mosquito-borne diseases. That's how the Panama Canal finally got dug, among other things. But in Florida, they have this quaint idea that they can perpetuate the swamp (which if left to itself would fill in anyway, they always do) and still somehow use voodoo science to repel the Zika carriers.


Yankees? Hell, we'd drain it, add ten feet of topsoil to raise the ground level (as they did in Chicago and Seattle and Chattanooga to solve plague problems) and put the drainage "canals" in nice concrete linings called "sewers". Like the Romans did.


There's a reason Floridians don't like Yankees. If they'd just stop selling overpriced land and taking Yankee dollars...they could live in peace.