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Old 24-11-2021, 13:54   #256
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Re: Dismasted by an aircraft carrier

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Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post
Lots of discussion of radar vs AIS regarding their usefulness in avoiding collisions. Using them both is ideal because they are so different from each other. Iíve used radar my whole life and am accustomed to the old school method of analyzing the drift as a target progresses down the screen but my new radar has the ability to lock onto targets and predict how close our crossing will be. PFM! But one thing Iíve already learned to consider is the sea state because my radars ability to predict the path of a target is severely degraded when my boat is moving around a lot due to large seas. But the AIS was relatively unaffected by this and in all sea state conditions did a good job of consistently and accurately predicting crossings. So especially in rough conditions Iíd be very careful about depending solely on the magic built into your modern radar if you also have AIS available to you. In fact Iíd never turn off my AIS unless navigating a crowded harbor where AIS alarms were constant and visibility was good.


A good post and the hammer contacted the nail head right in the middle of it's driving face.

If you can afford both, have both and you will find that each has it's limitations however using both together pretty well provides "as good as it gets" for collision avoidance. If you can only afford one or the other having now had experience with the dopler radar, I'd opt for the radar.
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Old 24-11-2021, 14:53   #257
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Re: Dismasted by an aircraft carrier

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No mention of flight operations made in government report:
https://www.premar-mediterranee.gouv...s-toulonnaises

Report says the CDG was on a training mission and that the collision will not affect the mission. The report does not say what the training mission was for.

If planes were taking off or landing, the Polish skipper, who was awake but below on his boat, would certainly have heard them over the sound of his own engine well before any collision with the CDG. I have sailed off HyŤres and seen jets taking off from and landing at the airbase near there. The planes can be heard from miles away.
No mention that they weren't conducting flight ops either. Pretty big leap that the solo sailor would hear anything - or if planes are flying around and can be heard from miles away, why that would then alert him to the presence of a carrier.

Probably need to wait for the investigation before we can say anything with certainty.
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Old 24-11-2021, 14:58   #258
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Re: Dismasted by an aircraft carrier

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Oh Man! I hope your okay, next time Iíll be sure to check with you before posting. Hereís a tissue.
Well if you're (that's how you spell that) going to jump into a long thread without reading through all the previous posts, and insist on posting some totally wrong butt-pluck, that has already been debunked, on a subject that you have absolutely no clue about, then you should probably ask a grownup.
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Old 24-11-2021, 17:26   #259
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Re: Dismasted by an aircraft carrier

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Oh Man! I hope your okay, next time I’ll be sure to check with you before posting. Here’s a tissue.

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
What however does being a private pilot have to do with it?
Another example of the self-important but irrelevant appeal to authority we see at times here. Generally a good indication that the poster doesn't really know what he is talking about.
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Old 24-11-2021, 21:00   #260
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Re: Dismasted by an aircraft carrier

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I think everyone in this thread is thoroughly familiar with how AIS works.

And yes, it's completely different from radar. That was indeed the point.

What however does being a private pilot have to do with it? You don't have AIS (TCAS and ADS are completely different), nor do you have the same kind of radar we do (yours is for weather, not collision avoidance or navigation). Aircraft collision avoidance is a fundamentally different process from what we do on the sea.

Your rock solid understanding is deeply flawed on both technologies.
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Old 24-11-2021, 21:09   #261
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Re: Dismasted by an aircraft carrier

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Another example of the self-important but irrelevant appeal to authority we see at times here. Generally a good indication that the poster doesn't really know what he is talking about.
Iíll make it shorter for you. Radar isnít in my plane but AIS is. Itís also required by the FAA for certain areas. Kinda telling.

I like that song your singing meÖ very nice.
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Old 25-11-2021, 01:49   #262
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Re: Dismasted by an aircraft carrier

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I’ll make it shorter for you. Radar isn’t in my plane but AIS is. It’s also required by the FAA for certain areas. Kinda telling.

Please provide a reference.


I'm aware of the FAA's Aviation Information System (AIS) and their Aeronatuical Information Services (AIS) but I have been unable to find any information concerning the FAA and use of the maritime Automatic Identification System (AIS) by aircraft.
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Old 25-11-2021, 02:43   #263
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Re: Dismasted by an aircraft carrier

Really? How did you do your research?
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Old 25-11-2021, 04:04   #264
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Re: Dismasted by an aircraft carrier

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Really? How did you do your research?

I take it you don't have a reference then?
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Old 25-11-2021, 06:12   #265
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Re: Dismasted by an aircraft carrier

ADS-B in planes is not the same as AIS, although it serves much of the same purpose.
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Old 25-11-2021, 10:17   #266
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Re: Dismasted by an aircraft carrier

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
Please provide a reference.

I'm aware of the FAA's Aviation Information System (AIS) and their Aeronatuical Information Services (AIS) but I have been unable to find any information concerning the FAA and use of the maritime Automatic Identification System (AIS) by aircraft.
I think the poster is deeply confused -- confusing Aviation Information System with our Automatic Identification System, two utterly and completely different systems having nothing whatsoever to do with each other, with not even similar functions.

Our AIS (Automatic Identification System) IS found on some aircraft, and even broadcasts on some -- but this is only for SAR aircraft, not private planes.

We are wasting our time engaging this.
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Old 25-11-2021, 10:22   #267
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Re: Dismasted by an aircraft carrier

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Originally Posted by rslifkin View Post
ADS-B in planes is not the same as AIS, although it serves much of the same purpose.

Indeed, but it works according to completely different principles, not surprising since collision avoidance is carried in the air according to completely different principles.


There is a system on planes called AIS. But this is the Aeronautical Information System. See: https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publ...section_1.html
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Old 25-11-2021, 12:23   #268
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Re: Dismasted by an aircraft carrier

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Indeed, but it works according to completely different principles, not surprising since collision avoidance is carried in the air according to completely different principles.


There is a system on planes called AIS. But this is the Aeronautical Information System. See: https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publ...section_1.html
Sounds much the same to me
'What is ADS-B?

ADS-B is a broadcast surveillance system in which an aircraft automatically transmits to a ground station and other air traffic its identity, precise location, altitude, velocity and other information. The system requires an aircraft to be fitted with systems such as a barometric encoder and global navigation satellite system (GNSS) equipment. '
That is from CASA but what would they know
https://www.casa.gov.au/book-page/ch...ance-and-ads-b

This is just from wiki
'The automatic identification system (AIS) is an automatic tracking system that uses transceivers on ships and is used by vessel traffic services (VTS). When satellites are used to detect AIS signatures, the term Satellite-AIS (S-AIS) is used. AIS information supplements marine radar, which continues to be the primary method of collision avoidance for water transport.[citation needed] Although technically and operationally distinct, the ADS-B system is analogous to AIS and performs a similar function for aircraft.

OK pedants, carry on.
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Old 25-11-2021, 12:40   #269
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Re: Dismasted by an aircraft carrier

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Our AIS (Automatic Identification System) IS found on some aircraft, and even broadcasts on some -- but this is only for SAR aircraft, not private planes.
Here in Oz the helicopters that take pilots out to incoming ships broadcast marine AIS. Kind of unnerving to see a "ship" on a collision course with you making 120 knots and with time to CPA 30 seconds!

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Old 25-11-2021, 12:49   #270
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Re: Dismasted by an aircraft carrier

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Here in Oz the helicopters that take pilots out to incoming ships broadcast marine AIS. Kind of unnerving to see a "ship" on a collision course with you making 120 knots and with time to CPA 30 seconds!

Jim
That's all very well and good Jim but is a helicopter in commercial service a 'private plane'??????
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