Common Sense Answer to Pirates

[AllezCat]

Originally Posted by Ruf361

if you read anyones reports on pirates, Markj comes to mind, you will see that is not the case. its hard to even tell they are hostile sometimes. they are in trash boat that could be fishing or pirates. The threat of violence on the cruisers part seems to be enough to detour them instead of actually inciting violence. I believe mark said something along the lines of a shark in the water
You dont have to be the fastest swimmer in the bunch, just faster than 1 person.
if you choose to carry a firearm or not seems to be less important than making the pirates think you are not going to be easy prey.
i am still in favor of just staying away

You are probably being sarcastic though, this rendering my post pointless

Sure it must be hard to tell at times. But, sometimes it's not, and patently obvious - i.e. a skiff too far from shore shooting at you with their "fishing rods". In any case if it mattered they would try. The certainly made a great effort to search every vessel during the Iraq embargo.
I don't think yachties matter to the TPTB, but I think major shipping would. Perhaps its not as big a problem to them?? We have plenty of fuel and Chinese trinkets here.
the other issue with the shipping companies protecting themselves - just seems so easy. One redneck atop a container ship fortress with a hunting rifle could easily hold off many with ak's. The cost of a couple of ex-military with decent stuff? Probably not much more than other crew. But, I guess they have legal issues - which I don't get...

[hummingway]

When this problem began to surface governments from various countries tried patrolling and searching the aforementioned fishing vessels. If any of the occupants were pirates it was impossible to determine since they never had weapons and always had fishing gear. They had no problem seeing the good guys coming and would dump there weapons at a sufficient distance that video evidence was inconclusive so ... the only way you could stop these guys would be to stop the fishing which isn't going to happen.

[perchance]

Phasers on stun Mr. Sulu

[perchance]

The safe room on these cargo ships are a good idea until the pirates find out where the cutting torches are stored.

[Ruf361]

i dislike the phasers and stun gun idea. first i think some countries consider them illegal weapons. 2nd for most them you have to be in physical contact with the attacker for them to work, or with in a few feet. i would much rather take preventative measure to keep them from boarding my vessel at all, but i suppose you could do both. either way, if your vessel was boarded, having a stun gun or tazer would be like having a knife. if you are going to go that route, just use a gun. Id much rather use a bat. good luck having someone hold still why you press a tazer to him for a few seconds. it does not work like the videos show. now a stun gun does work. if you can shoot them, if it penetrates their clothes if they are alone and the guy behind him doesnt lop your head off.

i think the best defense is a good offense. dont look like a easy target. be prepared to prevent them from getting on, what ever that means, be creative. motion lights, speakers etc. also, if i remeber correctly, the sound of a shotgun racking a slug into the chamber is the most easily recognized sound in the world. so you dont want to carry a gun? have a motion detector set up that switches on a flood light and have a small speaker near a hatch that loudly plays that sound.... that will make the butthole pucker.

also have a recording in their language that says you will shoot their face off if they dont leave your boat, or have it say something more PC. the fact is, if you do happen to get boarded, be prepared to do what ever to protect your family. i would focus most attention on NOT getting boarded.

not being in the area works wonders as well. i like the floodlamp and PA systems idea though. safety in numbers works also. read marks write up. So much talk about wha ifs. whats the difference if someone broke into your house?

people have gates, alarms, lights, security stickers visable, guns, dogs etc. if you are going cruising in an area that is known to be dangerous, i assume you have already devised your own plan for safety and bet your life on its ability to repel your borders, if not, i suggest moving to someplace less populated with pirates. if you are some place that isnt know for these occurances and you are the victim of a random crime, i would hope you had some type of damage control in place.

i travel internationally a decent amount, i keep a money pouch tucked inside my waist band, i am sure you know what i am talking about. i keep a small amount of cash in my pocket, a small amount in my sock. i never go into my money pouch in public. If i am robbed, they get a small stack of bills. Keep in mind i am 6'2, bald, 270lbs and depending on the clothing, visably tattooed. i am NOT a typical petty theft target, people just assume rob the women with the big open purse.

there is no difference when you are out cruising. I dont own a sail boat, and i am not cruising, but i think the concept is the same. Its your home, be smart. Have a quick way to look like a tough target. Its not like pirates are running around shooting holes in boats then robbing them. they pick easy targets and go. all this talk about rpg's and AK's etc is a little old. If you dont want to shoot at them because they have bigger firepower its not like they will have less guns when they get close....

if shooting is even one of your options. they arent looking for a rambo firefight, they are looking for cash and valuables. if it looks like they might die to get a hold of your raymarine chart plotter, they will go to someone elses boat. also consider the average age of cruisers, i would venture to say its 50+. average age of pirate? 30-. its all fine and dandy to think you are tough as nails at 50 and 60, but when you 30 you are still made out of rubber... something to consider.

that was long winded, i think i had too much coffee. in other news, i got on a 43 Endeavor CC today, you could play basketball inside that beast!

[OaklandSailor]

Originally Posted by NotQuiteLost

Everyone needs to be armed on the open ocean. I'm not specifically stating a minimum caliber (or even that a caliber is part of the equation), but it is literally the only remaining 'lawless' place in the world. Look what the 'Sea Shepherd' group gets away with every year without any punishment?

Everyone needs to be armed, and ready to defend themselves. The big ships can take care of it with reinforced panic rooms, or private security firms, but the rest of us have to keep it in our own hands.

RE: Sea Shepherd: You mean like throwing stink bombs at Japanese whalers? C'mon. No weapons, no direct contact. They aren't killing people or even harming them, they're merely irritating and slowing down the Japanese corporations who are slaughtering whales. IMHO.

[capn_billl]

RUF361 pretty much said it. I like the shotgun racking sound idea. That is the internationally recognised laguage for "get the h*** off my boat". Most of the thread has concentrated on Somali priates, but Thai pirates are another threat, usually fishermen that are looking for easier more profitable targets than fish. This also seems to be the same as the Somali pirates, (1 group fishermen who look for targets and radio positions, 2. Hardened paramilitary hijackers that take over from a mother ship). In both cases discouraging initial contact, (by appearing not to be a soft target), seems to be the most survivable option.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

but Thai pirates are another threat, usually fishermen that are looking for easier more profitable targets than fish. This also seems to be the same as the Somali pirates, (1 group fishermen who look for targets and radio positions, 2. Hardened paramilitary hijackers that take over from a mother ship). In both cases discouraging initial contact, (by appearing not to be a soft target), seems to be the most survivable option.

I was only aware of 1 sad incident in Thai waters, by illegal immigrants from Myanmar. Sounds like there have been more, where do you get your info from?

[capn_billl]

Malaysia urges focus on South China Sea piracy
Kuala Lumpur (AFP) Nov 30, 2009 - Pirates attacks in the South China Sea are increasing and Malaysia has urged the bordering nations to work together to fight the threat, reports said Monday. "Piracy there is not conventional any more. Pirates feel that the countries don't patrol the sea enough," Defence Minister Zahid Hamidi was quoted as saying by the New Straits Times newspaper. Zahid said that state-of-the art technology adopted by the navies of some littoral nations were useless without cooperation in combating the high-seas menace. The International Maritime Bureau (IMB), a global maritime watchdog, said there were 22 attacks reported in the area for the first 11 months of this year compared to 17 for the whole of 2008.

[capn_billl]

The event you brought up like most of the others seem to be targets of opportunity, by poor fishermen who have little recourse to better their lives. The basic problem as well as what keeps them poor is their culture. In my culture it is wrong to steal or vandalize no matter who or why. They live in a culture of envy. I am unlikely to steal or vandalize your boat no matter how bigger or newer it is than mine. They believe differently. I was in Malaysia some years ago when I walked by the dock watching fishermen bringing in their catch. They called cheerfully and waved as I watched and took the time to explain what they were doing. Everyone was calm and peacefull. I asked to buy a fish. At first no one wanted to sell me one. I asked why they said fishman buys them. I asked how much fishman pays per fish. They said he buys whole boat. I asked how many fish did they catch, they said good catch today. I asked will fishman miss one fish, they said no they sometime keep some for family. I asked how many fish he caught, he said 31 and proudly showed them. I asked how much fishman pay, he said 3 ringet. I said I give 1 ringet for one fish, he tried to give all fish, I said no only one. (language barrier, and apparently unable to do math). He gave me a fish, I gave him a ringet. Up until now the other fishermen kept working except an occasional joke or snide comment. As soon as I handed this fisherman a bonus of about 30% the others jumped up shouting, "buy my fish too", and shoved fish into my face violently. I grabbed my fish and ran chased by several dozen fishermen yelling and throwing fish and rocks. I barely made it to my car, (I had lost the fish in the struggle), when several police and the fishman showed up. The fishman was mad, (the fish he was going to buy was scattered in pieces all over the street). The police helped me into my car as the fishermen stood at a distance and continued to throw objects at me. After I explained what happened to the police, he suggested not to go by here for a few days, and next time buy fish from the fishman. I asked how much the fishman charged, 5 ringet per fish, (but without the throwing and yelling). I have walked in perfect safety throughout most of that part of the world at night. One thing I learned repeatedly, don't ever give even the smallest amount of change to anyone on the bottom, the rest will attack and rob you immediatly. The safest thing to do is learn the local slang for "no! go away", and yell it at any one who approaches you. The rest will leave you alone. It sounds opposite to what westerners have been taught, but that is the way it is there.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

but that is the way it is there.

Yeah , in some places the foreigners are more different than just a funny colour and talking strange

[goboatingnow]

God this nonsense make me mad more nonsense from the flog'm and hang'm brigade

Hears a summary of the lunatic Fringe

"shoot. Them with a 50 caliber"
" it's too late now we have to wipe them all out"
" it's their culture's fault they just rob westerners"

Of course all of this overlooks the fact that us westerners have systemstically plundered pillaged and subjugated these types of people again and again throughout history and are continuing to do so right to the present day

Piracy stated for several reasons in Somalia. A country where western involvement has a lot of blood on it's hands. Equally the destruction of their fishing grounds by western fishing fleets provided the incentives. To have the gaul to suggest that poor people should abide by your rich laws as they sit around starving shows a monumental lack of understanding. Why is it that Westerners in general and US in particular think problems like this can be solved by force. In reality no conflict has been resolved by force. Force merely supresses the problem for a short time.

Suggestions in this thread to arm yourself and supposedly fight back are ridiculous. These guys are not simple robbers or thieves. The have a grudge. Nor are they afraid of a little gun play attack these guys with a .22 and all that happens is the next yacht will be totally shot up before they even close in and they'll kill the occupants for sure. This is why the commercial shipping companies are either using private armies ie overwhelming firepower on the ship or safe rooms or merely accepting that it's an insurance payout. Non are sugessting arming the crew to try and defend themselves.


The fact is that by and large the somali pirates have not shown a propensity to kill ( or even hurt) people. Even the chandlers are still alive and being fed.

As to the "nuke" emm brigade. All you do is replace one set of dead pirates with another. Short of wiping out the whole country ( and that's called genocide, folks), widespread armed intervention will not work. ( not to mention the huge amount of civilian casualties. See Iraq for info)

Vietnam, Korea, suez, chad, Congo, Bosnia , iraq ,palistine, afganistan will or have been " solved" by military action. Ultimately just like northern Ireland you have to get all the sides to sit down and hammer out a deal if that means " talking" to pirates, terrorists,freedom fighter's, etc etc then that's what needed and in fact governments have shown a willingness to do just that.

As to yachts and pirates if you find that despite your attempts to remain unnoticed fail all you can hope is that a peaceful surrender will at least keep you are you family alive.

Let's keep the utter impractical nonsense ( radio controlled emp and 50 caliber etc) out of this debate.

Dave

[mintyspilot]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

...
Let's keep the utter impractical nonsense ( radio controlled emp and 50 caliber etc) out of this debate.

Dave

Would you be happier if we used a .22 instead of a .50 caliber?

Just asking....

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

Malaysia urges focus on South China Sea piracy
Kuala Lumpur (AFP) Nov 30, 2009 - Pirates attacks in the South China Sea are increasing and Malaysia has urged the bordering nations to work together to fight the threat, reports said Monday. "Piracy there is not conventional any more. Pirates feel that the countries don't patrol the sea enough," Defence Minister Zahid Hamidi was quoted as saying by the New Straits Times newspaper. Zahid said that state-of-the art technology adopted by the navies of some littoral nations were useless without cooperation in combating the high-seas menace. The International Maritime Bureau (IMB), a global maritime watchdog, said there were 22 attacks reported in the area for the first 11 months of this year compared to 17 for the whole of 2008.

Commercial ships with a safe full of wages
NOT cruising yachties.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

The event you brought up like most of the others seem to be targets of opportunity, by poor fishermen who have little recourse to better their lives. The basic problem as well as what keeps them poor is their culture. In my culture it is wrong to steal or vandalize no matter who or why. They live in a culture of envy. I am unlikely to steal or vandalize your boat no matter how bigger or newer it is than mine. They believe differently. I was in Malaysia some years ago when I walked by the dock watching fishermen bringing in their catch. They called cheerfully and waved as I watched and took the time to explain what they were doing. Everyone was calm and peacefull. I asked to buy a fish. At first no one wanted to sell me one. I asked why they said fishman buys them. I asked how much fishman pays per fish. They said he buys whole boat. I asked how many fish did they catch, they said good catch today. I asked will fishman miss one fish, they said no they sometime keep some for family. I asked how many fish he caught, he said 31 and proudly showed them. I asked how much fishman pay, he said 3 ringet. I said I give 1 ringet for one fish, he tried to give all fish, I said no only one. (language barrier, and apparently unable to do math). He gave me a fish, I gave him a ringet. Up until now the other fishermen kept working except an occasional joke or snide comment. As soon as I handed this fisherman a bonus of about 30% the others jumped up shouting, "buy my fish too", and shoved fish into my face violently. I grabbed my fish and ran chased by several dozen fishermen yelling and throwing fish and rocks. I barely made it to my car, (I had lost the fish in the struggle), when several police and the fishman showed up. The fishman was mad, (the fish he was going to buy was scattered in pieces all over the street). The police helped me into my car as the fishermen stood at a distance and continued to throw objects at me. After I explained what happened to the police, he suggested not to go by here for a few days, and next time buy fish from the fishman. I asked how much the fishman charged, 5 ringet per fish, (but without the throwing and yelling). I have walked in perfect safety throughout most of that part of the world at night. One thing I learned repeatedly, don't ever give even the smallest amount of change to anyone on the bottom, the rest will attack and rob you immediatly. The safest thing to do is learn the local slang for "no! go away", and yell it at any one who approaches you. The rest will leave you alone. It sounds opposite to what westerners have been taught, but that is the way it is there.

Where in Malaysia was this?

I have read this 3 times now and your description is so very different to my experiences there.

The people have always been so incredibly polite
I have never felt harassed
I have never felt the need to yell at anyone who approaches me
I have never been attacked or robbed immediately, or at all if giving a small tip (coin at end of transaction converting to cents for me)