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Doe818 · 16-01-2014, 17:27

That bit about doing 8 knots into a deep ocean wave and then going backwards really worries me...that would have to be a genuine top to bottom breaking rogue wave that was way bigger (read way bigger than just your average 20 footer) than average conditions. I've done a lot of heavy weather sailing into and out of New Zealand in cats including one really nasty trip a couple of years ago where a monohull was lost near us about 200 miles to the east of NZ due to a rogue wave. I just can't imagine doing 8 knots in a well found cat one minute and going backwards the next just out of the blue. I've never been on a cat that felt for even a second like it was going to do that, the bigger and steeper the waves, the more air the boat got getting over them (hehe). Not saying it didn't happen (I believe it did), just sounds very strange and in my mind can only be explained by something in the design, which if it is, will be verified in time as it would be sure to happen again.
Re being taken off, they sound like they've been at this sailing gig for long enough to know when its time to leave. I would have thought about trying to ditch the rudders, sounds like they were not super strong (the underside pics of the boat show then very far aft where there could not be much meat or length for the stock tubes) even if that entailed bashing them and the glass structure out with a hammer / chisel and/or ripping them out from underneath with a winch, rather take a couple of holes in the stern scoops which can be repaired than lose the whole boat.
The wine bit is a bit much, that should have stayed private, they will cop some flack for that....there is also that annoying insurance small print about masters/crew employing "all reasonable efforts to save their vessel"....

Doe818 · 16-01-2014, 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cotemar

Alpha 42 "Be Good Too"

6 Going south against winter northerlies

[/FONT]

Huh????? going south against northerlies????

**Cotemar** · 16-01-2014, 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doe818

Huh????? going south against northerlies????

The prevailing winter wind and waves are going north and they are sailing head on into them as they are going south to the BVI’s

Palarran · 16-01-2014, 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doe818

Huh????? going south against northerlies????

OOPS

Sand crab · 16-01-2014, 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by colemj

Just the part about the wave - the rest of the spin about the rudders, etc is him.
Mark

Top of the page.

Capt. Hank Schmitt after his rescue:“…no other yacht would have survived this rudder damage after the rogue wave hit and drove us vioently backward…”

Doe818 · 16-01-2014, 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cotemar

The prevailing winter wind and waves are going north and they are sailing head on into them as they are going south to the BVI’s

I know which way the BVI's are mate....I also know what a northerly is...no need to go bold and red on me...

sparau · 16-01-2014, 17:54

Quote:

At one point the boat experienced 50 knot winds and 20 foot seas but the wave piercing bows worked great

Up until the point where it buried the bows and caught the wave on the bridge deck?

**Cotemar** · 16-01-2014, 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doe818

I know which way the BVI's are mate....I also know what a northerly is...no need to go bold and red on me...

Sorry, I thought you did not know what I meant, when I seen all your ????

(Huh????? going south against northerlies????)

Palarran · 16-01-2014, 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doe818

That bit about doing 8 knots into a deep ocean wave and then going backwards really worries me...that would have to be a genuine top to bottom breaking rogue wave that was way bigger (read way bigger than just your average 20 footer) than average conditions. I've done a lot of heavy weather sailing into and out of New Zealand in cats including one really nasty trip a couple of years ago where a monohull was lost near us about 200 miles to the east of NZ due to a rogue wave. I just can't imagine doing 8 knots in a well found cat one minute and going backwards the next just out of the blue. I've never been on a cat that felt for even a second like it was going to do that, the bigger and steeper the waves, the more air the boat got getting over them (hehe). Not saying it didn't happen (I believe it did), just sounds very strange and in my mind can only be explained by something in the design, which if it is, will be verified in time as it would be sure to happen again.
Re being taken off, they sound like they've been at this sailing gig for long enough to know when its time to leave. I would have thought about trying to ditch the rudders, sounds like they were not super strong (the underside pics of the boat show then very far aft where there could not be much meat or length for the stock tubes) even if that entailed bashing them and the glass structure out with a hammer / chisel and/or ripping them out from underneath with a winch, rather take a couple of holes in the stern scoops which can be repaired than lose the whole boat.
The wine bit is a bit much, that should have stayed private, they will cop some flack for that....there is also that annoying insurance small print about masters/crew employing "all reasonable efforts to save their vessel"....

Great post. It's interesting to read the latest accounts. I don't think the motors where down. So why they had to bail by hand is a question. It also sounds like only one rudder was causing the steering problem to port so if you had to do massive demo to remove it only one stern compartment would have been compromised.

Is this area normally associated with true rogue waves?

Sand crab · 16-01-2014, 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palarran

Is this area normally associated with true rogue waves?

There's been more than a few there. That gulf stream probably has something to do with it.

List of rogue waves - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Neptune's Gear · 16-01-2014, 18:08

Interesting, I've read the whole thread. Plenty of conflicting stories already. No motors, but one motor full ahead etc. The only guys who really know are those who were on board, and more so whoever was on watch at the time.
IF she was forced bodily astern, hard enough to break the steering, it is easy to imagine that the motors could have had a hydraulic lock due to water ingress in the presumably aft facing exhausts.
Plenty of comments by the armchair admirals. All I think is that there but for the grace of God go I.
It will be interesting to see if an accurate sequence of events does come out.
Oh, and I agree, 8ft seas and 35 knots is not a real test of an Ocean capable vessel.
Pleased everyone is safe!

maytrix · 16-01-2014, 18:08

"At one point the boat experienced 50 knot winds and 20 foot seas but the wave piercing bows worked great."

So the definition of a rogue wave is one that is substantially larger than the typical waves. So if these were the sea conditions, how much larger was this wave to be called a rogue wave? Would it have to be 30'? 40'?

With conditions such as these, shouldn't someone be at the helm (it noted autopilot was on, but not whether or not someone was actively under control). I understand the weather wasn't great, but if you were paying attention, might you not get some warning of the wave? How was the visibility? If the rogue wave was as big as 30-40' isn't it likely it would have taken out the genoa, main sail or knocked the dinghy from the davits?

And shouldn't a blue water boat be able to handle these kind of conditions, rogue wave aside (if it really was a rogue wave)?

Just wondering if the story matches the pictures?

Sand crab · 16-01-2014, 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by maytrix

control). I understand the weather wasn't great, but if you were paying attention, might you not get some warning of the wave?

The problem with rogues is that they pop up out of nowhere and disappear just as fast.

colemj · 16-01-2014, 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sand crab

Top of the page.

Capt. Hank Schmitt after his rescue:“…no other yacht would have survived this rudder damage after the rogue wave hit and drove us vioently backward…”

Yes, I said the part about the wave is attributed to the captain. The part about the "massive" rudders and other stuff is Tarjan. And I think Tarjan put those words in the captains mouth. But that is a personal opinion for which I never expect to have any evidence.

Mark