Taiwan Made Boats

[TooCoys]

I've been on a few boats made in Taiwan, both monohull sail boats, and power, and I have to say that I do tend to like them. I find that they usually have more character than US manufactured boats.

What were some of the more prominent Taiwan manufacturers or boat builders? And when searching these boats out, what should one be aware of when purchasing them?

[zeehag]

ta chiao, formosa boat builders and many others. what marque boat you seek--formosa. island trader, marine trader, baba, tayana, ct, hardin, and so many more.....

[model 10]

I always wanted a Lafette 44, but way to much money for me. One day I saw one in the boatyard with it's keel cut open. It was full of old rusted scrap metal.

[TooCoys]

Originally Posted by Guy

I always wanted a Lafette 44, but way to much money for me. One day I saw one in the boatyard with it's keel cut open. It was full of old rusted scrap metal.

Oh the Lafitte 44! Thats what the SeaChange guys are sailing around the world on right now.

[model 10]

Originally Posted by TooCoys

Oh the Lafitte 44! Thats what the SeaChange guys are sailing around the world on right now.

We met those guy's down on the Rio, nice looking boat. Maybe some have a solid keel?
We were in a regatta down there with them and maybe 15 other boats. Almost no wind but we out sailed them on one leg on our boat.

[Cheechako]

The Taiwan boats are getting pretty long in the tooth at this point. They had good thick hulls and sloppy detail glass work in general. Fittings on deck have long been an issue as they were bedded poorly and the balsa cored decks often became water saturated in spots. But this can be pretty common un US built boats also. Any plywood used is suspect as it rots readily. These boats seem to seldom leak at the hull/deck joint compared with "bolt together" US models. The bronze stuff seems very good, great seacocks etc. Stay away from ones with plywood cabins or cockpits lightly glassed over.
- Ta Chaio ("CT") Were very prominent. Built a ton of boats, the later ones are pretty good. There are good things and bad about them. Watch out for tanks buried under the floor.
-Ta Shing built some of the best boats in the world and accordingly became only a very large luxury boat builder eventually. But their smaller boats were impeccable. (Baba, early Passport etc)
-The Cheoy Lees I've looked at were generally poorly built, I'm not entirely sure who built those. A lot of rotten plywood and chopper gun.
-Formosa Yachts seem to be good and bad from what I've seen, but they were some of the earliest built so the early boats were before the learning curve for sure.

[Mike OReilly]

Rafiki 37s (and I think the 35s, but not sure about that) fit your category. Built in Taiwan (Pale Shiang, Taipei according to one source I have for my boat) for the Western Pacific Yacht company. I think Cheechako describes them well, although I'm not sure about the sloppy detailed glass work. Don't see any such issues on my boat ... hardward and deck leaks for sure though .

Lots of Tayanas, Babas, Passports, and the like built over there. I assume it was cheap quality labour and access to cheap teak.

I love these boats. Most I've seen have been well built, very solid, and standing the test of time. If they've been maintained properly they'll be good for many years to come.

[Tetepare]

Originally Posted by TooCoys

Oh the Lafitte 44! Thats what the SeaChange guys are sailing around the world on right now.

My sister and BIL circumnavigated with a lafitte 44. I sailed with them for a week or so. Solid boat in heavy weather.

Cheechako said they r getting long in the tooth meaning wear and tear but they are equally dated ergonomically. Just like autos, boat design ergonomics has improved significantly

Baba oreilly cited leaks but any boat that old needs everything rebedded. I've been in the process of rebedding my 1990. When we get a newtous boat I assume I'll have to strip and rebed everything.

[zeehag]

rebedding is part of routine maintenance.
because previous owners failed to maintain many boats does not mean shoddy workmanship. was merely shoddy ownership.
as for scraps in keels--the keels are poured concrete with metal scraps included. whats the big deal..no keel bolts to fail at sea due to fail maintenance. usa built boats have similarly constructed keels--yorktown is one, and i donot rememnber others made in usa. too many usa boat construction companies lost their abilities to construct boats due to outrageous epa standards causing change in materials used and methods of construction. not cost effective.
the only things i have noticed in my formosa., 1976, is the masts, which are thai cedar are not rotted from age, but from prior shoddy maintenance--main mast is still perfect after 40 yrs. i would still have an intact mizzenmast if i had not fallen for the wind generator on top of mizzen trick.oops wrong choice. furycame patricia destroyed mast with the twist-o-flexing that occurred in 215 mph winds with 250 mph gusting. witnessed by nervous neighbor thinking he was gonna die from it.
the 40 yr old boats have no balsa coring--none. hulls were solid fiberglass, and the deck cores were ply wood. coring in my decks is doorskin thick wood with the remainder of 3/4 inch thick decking being fg. mine never had teak decking.
as these areNOT production boats, each is different. there is no generalization that covers these taiwanese boats.
most of the disrespecting has been done by folks who donot own them and have not sailed them, repeating leaky teaky jokes when someone not maintaining their decks gets a wet pillow. waahhh.
they do have a propensity towards termite invasions, particularly when berthed or anchored in termite areas. you see termites in a tree-- donot park downwind of them.
whoopee. common sense.
there is one quarter of boat that seems to be weakened more by the fridge fresh water leakage than the rest of the boat-- that part requires repair, if not replacement of the issues and is labor intensive.
yes i am currently a proud owner of a leaky teaky and love it. it is well worth the repairs required to reverse the poor prior fail maintenance of the past 40 years. including my own. hahahahaha.
i find no deal breakers in william gardens design, even as produced by the taiwanese workers. they make perfect cruisers.
ask jeff hartjoy about babas--he rtw in his 2 times now.
i think mebbe taiwanese boats being dissed by nonowners is the largest issue with em
lafitte 44 does have a balsa core which can be an issue if hull holed. neighbors in san diego(former neighbors still friends) own one that experienced bilateral bow cleat failure from a mooring which was required by the mooring company to maintain their tag line and pennant too short for boat, causing jerking and tugging in a 65 kt wind, broke away from mooring. they were fortunate to have had it land in sand only making one hole in cored hull, now repaired. they are still happy with their choice.
had i a redo--i would still buy this taiwanese built cruising boat, over anything made in usa or production boats of any marque or age

[model 10]

I can't believe that Robert Perry wanted a fin keel boat with ever expanding rusty metal in concrete. Did they use sand in their concrete without any salt in it?. Probably not.

[zeehag]

Originally Posted by Guy

I can't believe that Robert Perry wanted a fin keel boat with ever expanding rusty metal in concrete. Did they use sand in their concrete without any salt in it?. Probably not.

so you are a naval architect now, are you?
try looking at the effectiveness of keels before slamming what has worked for 40 yrs. can bendytoy or other modern bolt ons clainm this?
40 yrs and still perfect.

[btrayfors]

Cheoy Lee boats are built in Hong Kong, not Taiwan.

I've never heard of a chopper gun being used on CL boats; they were mostly (all?) hand laid-up.

Strengths and weaknesses of CL boats are well known and documented over the years, including on the CL Owners Association website.

Encapsulated iron keels are/were quite common and if well done present no problems.

My 36-year old Perry-designed Cheoy Lee-built sloop with an encapsulated keel is still going strong.

Bill

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by zeehag

so you are a naval architect now, are you?
try looking at the effectiveness of keels before slamming what has worked for 40 yrs. can bendytoy or other modern bolt ons clainm this?
40 yrs and still perfect.

This isn't slamming in my eyes. I had a pearson vanguard with steel punchings in the keel. A real problem was the rusty swell or even the wet freeze burst. This is just a reality of old boats. Lots of builders did this, not just tiawanese boats. Pointing out deficiencies creates lists of pros-cons when looking at boats, or even areas to inspect before moving to the next step.

[Cheechako]

Steel ballast was used in a lot of US boats also. Ballast is ballast. Lead is better obviously but expensive too. Steel encapsulated in concrete not a great idea as the concrete has water in it. But realistically, manufacturers of many items don't plan for them to last 3-4 decades. Steel punchings from fabricating shops were pretty much free back then.

[zeehag]

lead is poison is why it was stopped from use. i drew blood lead levels for alco pacific. no one passed the blood level test. all were unreasonably high.
as for choppergun techiques, they were more popular in usa wherein hand laid boats became passe due to epa rulings. discovered to be less sturdy, technique was stopped, for the most part. is one reason for fail of clipper marine. 1/8 inch thickness chopper gun layup is a fail boat.
mine at 40 yrs of age shows hand layup. use of mat was common as a filler to save dough but is sandwiched between layers of woven roving.
there is a difference between use of mat and use of a hoppergun for layups.