Non-Sailor Looking For Advice!!

[AndyEss]

Originally Posted by JensenJourney

.. I would love to be able to find a craft for 0-$5000 and spend time fixing her up like many of those couples did... but at the size I need... :banghead


Thanks for all the advice... keep it coming.

You apparently have a budget of zero to $5k to purchase a boat to house a family of 10-12.

Buy a tent and go camping. Stay away from Utoob. You and your family will have a lot of fun.

[danleach]

First, yes...you are out of your mind. ;-)

But the program of improvement, testing and discovery you outline is, in fact, the way to go about it. In the process of getting healthy, learning to sail, taking courses, doing a charter, learning how the family reacts to it...those are the steps that should lead you to a fuller understanding of the challenges, modifications to the plan, or full conviction that the plan is rock solid.

There's lots of advice to be had from the old saults who hang out here....though to be honest....I've never known someone who ran away to sea with a football team.

The cautions you hear about the costs of the boats you may need are not a joke. The bigger they are the more expensive everything is to buy. And more expensive as in an exponential curve.

All that said, good luck with the plan

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by JensenJourney

The VA Disability (100%) does provide passive income, but not at the level of affording a power yacht. I have a good friend with one (65 footer in Pacific Northwest/Alaska) that he uses every summer for several months. He was my first call when considering such a drastic shift in lifestyle. He, knowing me quite well, strongly discouraged that idea as unattainable barring a massive wealth change.


Re: YouTube sailing channels. I'm up to date on many of them. When the idea started forming for me I actually started with blogs. Read everything Bumfuzzle wrote up to finishing their circumnavigation, then Zero to Cruising. I mentioned the idea to a cousin at a funeral and he told me of Gone With the Wynns. After binging their shows I found Delos (binged), then SLV (binged), Zatara (binged), Project Atticus (binged), Sailing Uma (binged), Ran Sailing, MJ sailing, and sailing Saiorse. I would love to be able to find a craft for 0-$5000 and spend time fixing her up like many of those couples did... but at the size I need...


Re: the "badgers". I kind of laugh at the "it will be too hard" comments. Because NO ****! That's why I'm asking for advice from 'experts' … if it were going to be easy I wouldn't need help, would I? Even if it eventually turns out unattainable FOR ME, it is an achievable goal. It's like I'm the fat person at the gym, asking how the equipment works, and instead of offering advice you are laughing about how funny this will be to watch rather than offer advice. Really, no decent person does that. C'est La Vie I don't mind hearing were the rocks/reefs/difficulties are... that is what I've asked for afterall, but the "don't even bother trying" stuff is, well, what makes you a "badger".


Thanks for all the advice... keep it coming.

Budget of $0-5000???? For a boat fit for 11 living aboard?

April Fools!

[Wanton]

Originally Posted by JensenJourney

I have never once set foot on a sail boat. No one in my family has. That should be enough to tell me that the rest of this post foolishness, but damn it, if I don’t make any bad decisions then I won’t have any good stories to tell later in life! So…

We’ve decided to move our family onto a sailboat and escape the stresses and “hoops” of modern US culture. I’m trying to come up with a list of basic steps that my wife and I need to take to get us there. Any and all advice on the topic is welcome.

About us: I’m a 6 foot tall disabled Army veteran with PTSD issues, a bad back, and am way overweight. My wife is perfectly healthy and capable. We have 9 (yes, NINE) children at home now ranging in ages from 6 months up to 16 years old, all healthy, athletic, and willing. I suspect a couple might be moved out by the time we move through this list and make the move.

Here are the steps we came up with as a START so far:
• Drop weight down to 270 (minimum, 250 or less ideally)
• Be able to walk at least 2 miles non-stop
• Visit friend’s 40’ sailboat on nearby lake
• Reorganize spending/savings habits to make sailing the priority
(ie no major purchases that can’t come with us on a boat)

After my weight and health get to be less of an issue we’d then start moving through some other steps:
• Charter a boat for a week or so (make sure this isn’t something we’ll hate)
• Take a sailing course (ASA?) near us
• Find some crew opportunities for me (and maybe one of the teenagers) to gain hours and experience

At some point along here (2-3 years from now??) we’d expect to have an idea of boat types, sizes, features, that we could work with and might start looking at boats to buy. I’ve been looking at them now anyway, but only so that I have some idea of what good and bad deals might look like (and some daydreaming of course ) . I figure with a family this size that a Catamaran is going to be a must. We anticipate a few years around the States/Carib/Bahamas to learn/teach/refine our skills, establish routines, get our sea legs, play, etc… before we would like to try circumnavigating.

Enough though… what advice do you have for non-sailors looking to learn? Do these steps and timeframes seem reasonable? What have we overlooked? What are we too ignorant about to even question? Fill us in and help us out! Thanks!!

I am utterly horrified with your plan. Lets cut to the chase and let me speak frankly about life on a boat. You say you have never sailed a sailing boat. Have you not read books about families with years of sea sailing experience who set sail on their lifelong dream of sailing around the world. Have you ever considered how you would walk, crawl or somehow get to the foredeck to bring down an out of control flogging genoa in 10, 15, 20 30 or 40 knot plus wind in huge seas from 6 ft or more tossing your boat around like a little wine bottle cork. Its not a holiday in those kind of seas and your life and your family's lives will certainly be in dire danger of being lost. Can you imagine sailing around in circles in the middle of the ocean after one of your children falls overboard during as storm? You'd be sailing around for days and most likely you will never find your child.

If you need a change of life why not consider something that may actually be good for you and your family, something like buying a small farm and lending your talents to growing, beef, sheep, chickens or corn.

I am not a high seas cruise sailor, but I have been on the ocean when things are not so idyllic for sailing. Genoas ripped to pieces when caught out in a huge unexpected wind change. The noise of a flogging sail is enough to terrify an inexperienced sailor or passenger.

Get real. If you want to sail, first get yourself on a boat by yourself to see what it is like. Don't just go out when it is perfect, smooth winds try to be out there in 20 knot winds for a start and try to downsize the sails before you are hit by the wind. By yourself on the bow of the boat, bouncing up and down and being tossed around with just the forestay and pull pit structures to stop you from being tossed overboard. It's hundreds of times more tossing power than riding a raging bull, and the seas don't get tired as a bull does after a while. Storms can last for days and you'd need to survive and keep your family safe and in good moral as the seas and winds toss your whatever sized boat you think is big enough for your family.

I am being brutal but I think you need to hear this. I have sailed with people who had been sailing with partners for over twenty years, and yet they still feel panicked when ever their boats heals over just a few degrees as all sail boats do. How will your wife and children react when the boat is healing over and being tossed around by the wind and seas. I remember when my boat was suddenly hit by an unexpected squall from the starboat side. The boat was suddenly tossed on its side with the spreaders in the water. My then wife was experienced and remained calm, very few people have the mind set to remain calm in a situation like that. Please. please get real and think before going down the road you are thinking of.

I know a lot here will be very critical of my brutal review. But then so be it. It is my honest view.

[Wanton]

JensenJourney, just in case you think I am overstating the challenge just take a look at this video of the Sydney Hobart race 1998. All the boats in that race where incredibly sea worthy with highly experienced crews on them. Just take a look and listen to some of the comments from those participants in that race. PS: do not think that cruising yachts never encounter such conditions, it is even worst in some parts of the oceans.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgsp_kHicu8

[Tobugrynbak]

Just a thought, I understand what your long term goal is, here's an idea for you. Buy a small trailer sailer that you can drop into the local lake. No you won't be able to take your whole squad out with you at once but it will teach you seacraft, how to rig and set sails. It will also give you an idea of how physical sailing is, and showup those in your squad who can't grow sea legs.

Of course its not just the active sailing you need to get your head around, but boat maintenance. Little boats require maintenance, big boats more maintenance.


Now I'm not sure what the U.S. situation is but here in Oz there are lots of sailing clubs that offer courses and there is always crew opportunities for newbies. I would expect similar situation over there.

[sandy stone]

Wanton, I would just like to say that most cruising boats would never encounter conditions like that. Certainly it's possible, but not really likely. The difference is that racing boats go out regardless of the weather forecast, and cruising boats wait for favorable conditions. You can still get caught out on a long passage, and you should be prepared for it, but it probably won't happen.
The biggest obstacles I see are health issues (overcome with diligence and determination), lack of knowledge (ditto), and size of the boat needed (this could really be a problem).

[Wanton]

Originally Posted by sandy stone

Wanton, I would just like to say that most cruising boats would never encounter conditions like that. Certainly it's possible, but not really likely. The difference is that racing boats go out regardless of the weather forecast, and cruising boats wait for favorable conditions. You can still get caught out on a long passage, and you should be prepared for it, but it probably won't happen.
The biggest obstacles I see are health issues (overcome with diligence and determination), lack of knowledge (ditto), and size of the boat needed (this could really be a problem).

Sandy stone, I think the guy wants to sail around the world. There is every chance that he will encounter that sort of weather. Even if he does coastal sailing he will encounter weather that he and his family will most likely not be able to deal with. Why are so many people here giving advise about diet and losing weight and size of boats. The commentary should take into account what he dreams of doing. He dreams of sailing on the sea with his family of his wife and so many his children. He has no idea what the sea can be. He is asking for advise surely we have a responsibility to tell the truth. I have been told of people who lost children overboard in transit from North America to Australia. They spent days sailing in circles searching for them. It is not a picnic on the ocean. Even if the man was 100% fit how is he going to deal pulling a sail down during a big blow, or worst with a 360 roll. He must be made aware that these kind of things do happen to the best of us. Size of boat?? Even full sized tanker ships get in trouble, much less a family sailed yacht.

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by JensenJourney

I have never once set foot on a sail boat. No one in my family has. That should be enough to tell me that the rest of this post foolishness, but damn it, if I don’t make any bad decisions then I won’t have any good stories to tell later in life! So…

We’ve decided to move our family onto a sailboat and escape the stresses and “hoops” of modern US culture. I’m trying to come up with a list of basic steps that my wife and I need to take to get us there. Any and all advice on the topic is welcome.

About us: I’m a 6 foot tall disabled Army veteran with PTSD issues, a bad back, and am way overweight. My wife is perfectly healthy and capable. We have 9 (yes, NINE) children at home now ranging in ages from 6 months up to 16 years old, all healthy, athletic, and willing. I suspect a couple might be moved out by the time we move through this list and make the move.

Here are the steps we came up with as a START so far:
• Drop weight down to 270 (minimum, 250 or less ideally)
• Be able to walk at least 2 miles non-stop
• Visit friend’s 40’ sailboat on nearby lake
• Reorganize spending/savings habits to make sailing the priority
(ie no major purchases that can’t come with us on a boat)

After my weight and health get to be less of an issue we’d then start moving through some other steps:
• Charter a boat for a week or so (make sure this isn’t something we’ll hate)
• Take a sailing course (ASA?) near us
• Find some crew opportunities for me (and maybe one of the teenagers) to gain hours and experience

At some point along here (2-3 years from now??) we’d expect to have an idea of boat types, sizes, features, that we could work with and might start looking at boats to buy. I’ve been looking at them now anyway, but only so that I have some idea of what good and bad deals might look like (and some daydreaming of course ) . I figure with a family this size that a Catamaran is going to be a must. We anticipate a few years around the States/Carib/Bahamas to learn/teach/refine our skills, establish routines, get our sea legs, play, etc… before we would like to try circumnavigating.

Enough though… what advice do you have for non-sailors looking to learn? Do these steps and timeframes seem reasonable? What have we overlooked? What are we too ignorant about to even question? Fill us in and help us out! Thanks!!

Never set foot on a sailboat but you are interested in messing about in boats, in a big way, huh? I think the first step is to DO set foot on a sailboat, one way or the other. The baby steps can be inexpensive. Crew for someone on Wed evening "beer can" races. Your weight could even be an asset, if you are agile enough and willing to hike outside the lifelines. You would be self propelled, self adjusting ballast, AKA "rail meat". A few races will get you off to a good start in learning stuff, and help you make contacts in your local yachting community. Do you know anyone who sails? Social media is one way to hook up. Just hanging out at a marina is good. Bring beer. Sailboat guys like beer, usually. Often there are post race pier parties. Show up with a cooler and a big box of fried chicken (or whatever folks eat where you are)and just casually ask if you can join the party cause it looks like everyone is having a great time, and you are crazy interested in sailing. Crewing won't cost you much at all. Deck shoes, lots of hats, (nobody is gonna turn the boat around in a race to retrieve a flyaway hat) and sunscreen. And beer. You are only out for a few hours, but that is long enough to see if you get seasick or not.


Another option is to buy a dinghy and learn the basics that way. A few capsizes and you will start learning pretty good. Especially if the water is cold. The kids will love it, too. Or a beach cat like a hobie or something. Great fun, no marina expense, "dock" it in your yard or driveway. Or a bigger boat, a day sailer or weekender type boat. Sailing for Dummies is actually a decent book to start with, but there are a lot of better, more in depth books to go further in your education.



These are relatively inexpensive ways to get started. You could also do a crewed charter. This can be kind of expensive. Especially if you bring all or most of your family. But the right skipper can teach you a lot. Work through an ASA or RYA school for best bang for the buck... you start accumulating bits of paper that will help you later to charter bareboat. From there, yeah, charter bareboat, cruise for a week or two, and see how everybody likes it.



Your forever yours boat fir a crew that size will have to be a pretty big one. I seriously would go monohull. Maybe keep an eye out for an older and larger size Bruce Roberts Spray design. Gut the interior, go with bunks two high with curtains, and male and female privacy/changing/head/shower areas. With so many aboard, having a single facility will be a non starter. You and Mom get the vee berth, up forward, en suite head.


A cat will be crazy expensive compared to mono, and can be very hard to find a slip for. You will anchor... a LOT. or catch a mooring ball. They can be spacious and comfortable, yeah. VERY nice on the hook. But aside from my own preference, I think when you compare the price, even allowing for the fact that the same length cat has a lot more room than the mono, you will decide to go mono.



Do take this in steps. Weight and fitness WILL be a factor, so start getting that duck in the row right now. Get some sail time. Any kind of sail time, to start. You can read a whole lot of books and watch a bunch of videos but then buy a biggish boat and be totally lost and clueless, shackled to a hugely expensive liability. Or you can start out more modestly and work up into it, making decisions along the way about what, where, when, why, who type stuff, learn maintenance, pilotage and navigation, boat handling, all that stuff on simpler platforms. You will need at least most of your crew to learn everything that you will learn.


Don't let the negative nancy posters STOP you, but consider carefully all their sometimes sensible, sometimes merely paranoid warnings. This won't be a walk inthe park. It won't be without risk. RISK MANAGEMENT is extremely important. With a crew that big, and especially some rather on the young side for this endeavor, there have to be written in stone, no exception, common sense safety rules. There must be adequate, high quality, easily used or deployed safety equipment. There are a lot of things on a boat, particularly a bigger boat, that can kill you or yours. Serious. It's not an amusement park ride. The sea doesnt hate you... it just doesn't care. So sometimes it kills, especially the unprepared or uninformed or reckless. Don't be that guy. In spite of a goodly number of bozos on the water, yachting is statistically a pretty safe endeavor. Just be aware that there are dangers waiting to bite you on the hiney if you let your guard down.

[MTF]

Good on you for having a dream and the courage to pursue it. Yes there will be challenges but don’t let the naysayers hold you back.

I’ve just started a similar journey with a much smaller family but many of the same challenges apply. That said we are now living aboard and I’m writing this while laying in bed at anchor.

This Aussie family of 13 did it on a 43 footer! https://www.thewaywardhome.com/sailing-adventure/

My advice would be to get on the water as soon as possible and to cut down the 2-3 year plan if you can as we never know what else in life may get in our way to setback the plan or prevent it from happening altogether.

[Tom1080]

Start with a two week charter, with skipper & cook. Somewhere with nice winds, warm water where you can all experience what is great about being on a boat without worrying about the navigation, bumping the boat and cooking. British Virgin Islands, US Virgin Islands perhaps mid to end October when it's quiet season and usually after all the hurricanes have finished. Its not cheap but worth the investment in your possible new future.

Dingy sailing is great, cheap, can be done locally to you and will improve your sail handling skills ( think clutch, accelerator, break, indicators etc in a shift stick car) If you can handle it without thinking life is better.

Sailing courses: Follow a progressive path, for example like the British RYA scheme.. Competent Crew, Day skipper, Coastal Skipper, Yacht master.There will be shore based (either on line or in a class room) as well as week long practical parts where you will gain confidence and skills in an ordered way. Get the family interested and attending some too. See how much they want to learn and how far they want to go.

Flotilla or bare-boat charter: Now the next step just you guys on the boat.. The flotilla takes some of the planning out of the equation and you will have a support boat around whilst you and the family hone your skills. Or straight in for a bare-boat charter where all the decisions on where you go and what you do are all your. This helps focus the mind very much!

All through this talk to people about what boats are good and why, where to sail and when and build YOUR OWN thoughts on what will work for you and your family. (Every one has their own opinion so pick out the relevant bits for you).

The support and info is out there in blogs, forums like this, facebook groups etc.. It's a lot to do and may seem overwhelming but steps along the way make it manageable.

Finally do NOT underestimate the learning curve when you buy the boat.. wow! I had sailed and charted for many years with my family but all the things I had to learn about kitting out, running and maintaining everything our boat was a hell of a lot more than I expected.

Wishing you and your family a great sailing adventurous future.

Yours aye
Tom

(Ex Royal Air Force)

[KP44]

Do some preparing while you raise your children.
Volunteer as crew for local sailboat races. Do an hour or day sailing with friends you make at local boat yards.
Eventually buy a small sailboat and learn about boats and systems.
In 15 years of focused effort, you'll be prepared and your children will be nearly grown. That's about the time to start shopping seriously for a cruising boat for two.

[Lesliesailsaway]

Wow. First of all thank you for your service. I think you have a lot to consider. You have received a lot of careful opinions from the sailors thus far. Here's mine. I am a new sailor living full-time on a small catamaran. My boyfriend and I have been up and down the coast (both ICW and offshore) from the Keys to VA since we started one year ago and we have traveled 1000s of miles. I'm turning 60 this year. My experience offshore initially was horrible with the sea sickness. Imagine your whole family being seasick!!! It's hard to function when you are vomiting!!!

My first concern is for your health and safety of your children. Being over weight and being able to run across a catamaran quickly maybe very challenging for you, especially chasing after small children. The physical strength you need, flexibility and the maintenance skills you should have is also crucial unless you have the financial backing to maintain a vessel that will accomodate your family comfortably. A large cat is a great choice but is going to cost a mint plus the upkeep.

My first recommendation would be to charter a cat or monohull with a captain for a few days and see how your family handles it. Secondly, take sailing classes and finally get healthy.

We all wish you the best of luck.

[tgradyv7m]

All that advice. "Just go for it, Ray"

I think you have a great plan. Loosing weight certainly helps but you will know that on the first boat you get on. Most important, take a few lessons and if you like it do more. And RVing is nothing like boating.

[odonnellryan]

I haven't been sailing for very long, but I've already met a few people who jump in and buy a boat then decide they do not enjoy it.

Even as someone in their mid-late twenties, being in the sun an entire day, jumping around the boat doing this and that, gets tiring. It is a ton of fun and there are people much older than me who do much more, so it is certainly possible, but don't think even the fun bits won't be work