Four People and a Sailboat. The Quest.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by familycruisers

Which is exactly what they are doing. I don't see your comments as being edited to reflect your new found knowledge that they are educating themselves.
The "my tax dollars" comment was arrogant, imo of course. I dont think I saw one post that advised to simply buy the boat, cast off, and sail over the horizon.
Most yahoos I've seen that needed rescue typically are the ones with more money than brains.
Maybe you should change your screen name to Learntosailsoyoudontusemytaxesnow.

Wow, Old Familycruisers guy has come out swinging this AM. The OP didn't say anything about getting proper training at first. He even went so far as to say he didn't have any money for chartering etc. I think the forum helped slow him down just a tad.

Remember, folks are only trying to help this guy and his family. I think the thing that makes it different is that it isn't some old guy that is over 50 with his kids grown and on their own that has decided to go for a 400 mile sail solo, it's a guy with his wife and young children that has little or no experience.

[rover88]

Sailing is a constant learning process and you guys have given the OP his first sailing lesson, to be summed up as:

Ask three sailors the same question and you'll get three answers, an argument and possibly a fistfight.

[familycruisers]

Only about the tax dollars comment. I still say way more people with money doing stupid stuff. Like Kennedy flying a complex aircraft with little type rated experience, killing his family in the process.
It amazes me how many of my well off friends really have no clue what they are doing with their babs (big a55 boat) .
Anyway, whats with that "old" talk! LOL

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by familycruisers

Only about the tax dollars comment. I still say way more people with money doing stupid stuff. Like Kennedy flying a complex aircraft with little type rated experience, killing his family in the process.
It amazes me how many of my well off friends really have no clue what they are doing with their babs (big a55 boat) .
Anyway, whats with that "old" talk! LOL

Maybe I shoulda said ole instead of Old. Btw, if you do sail South with your family this summer you might want to stop by Tangier Island. It has changed very little over the years I hear.

Also, there is Onancock. The creek is 8' deep all the way (about 5 miles) to the town. They have tons of arts shops there these days also. There is a place near the town wharf where you can anchor for free and a little place for your dinghy by the wooden bridge near by.

Then there's Kiptopeke which has those sunken cement ships we anchor behind. Plus, there is a campground there (and trails) should your kids need a break from the boat. You can usually catch your dinner at your anchorage also if you like Spot and Crocker. That's what I normally live on when there during weekend visits in the summer plus canned goods etc ...........

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by familycruisers

Only about the tax dollars comment. I still say way more people with money doing stupid stuff. Like Kennedy flying a complex aircraft with little type rated experience, killing his family in the process.
It amazes me how many of my well off friends really have no clue what they are doing with their babs (big a55 boat) .
Anyway, whats with that "old" talk! LOL

I wont go around this issue repeatedly, but Ive seen it on the sharp end , Ive seen rescues, I seen ill-prepared people get bad frights, Ive seen a marriage fail over it, Ive seen several partner walkouts, Ive seen a fool loose the boat completely. Rescue services cost a lot of money and its sometime very gauling to see it wasted on people for whom this is a leisure activity .

In many countries, specific laws exist to actually prevent people like this going to sea without at the very least some minimum training, a clear attempt to try and stop the foolhardy types.

Sure Ive met one or two "babies walking down the motorway" types that true luck and some inate ability allows them to survive and cross oceans, but it isnt common. The vast majority of successful sailors, especially long distance, are careful , thoughful and generally have extensive sailing resumes, built up over a considerable amount of time.

Dave

[familycruisers]

Extensive resume still doesn't mean good captain. Period. Case in point HMS Bounty, Costa Concordia, etc. I still feel your broad sweeping statement that your tax dollars would be wasted in elitist, arrogant, poppycock. I sumbit your tax dollars are being sufficiently wasted by our elected officials in a much greater capacity than these folks ever will.

[familycruisers]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Maybe I shoulda said ole instead of Old. Btw, if you do sail South with your family this summer you might want to stop by Tangier Island. It has changed very little over the years I hear.

Also, there is Onancock. The creek is 8' deep all the way (about 5 miles) to the town. They have tons of arts shops there these days also. There is a place near the town wharf where you can anchor for free and a little place for your dinghy by the wooden bridge near by.

Then there's Kiptopeke which has those sunken cement ships we anchor behind. Plus, there is a campground there (and trails) should your kids need a break from the boat. You can usually catch your dinner at your anchorage also if you like Spot and Crocker. That's what I normally live on when there during weekend visits in the summer plus canned goods etc ...........

I love Tangier. I love the Southern bay. Smith Is. ,Tred Avon, Wye, are great spots as well. Actually unless the nettles are numerous, the Chessy is just full of beautiful anchorages. If the nettles are out come Hartmiller or north and the waters are sting free. Ironically with the lack of run off this past year, the bays oxygen levels were the best they've been in years.

[familycruisers]

Actually I told my wife last summer. " We could of spent an entire summer in a different anchorage everyday, and have only explored one river on the Chessy."

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by familycruisers

I love Tangier. I love the Southern bay. Smith Is. ,Tred Avon, Wye, are great spots as well. Actually unless the nettles are numerous, the Chessy is just full of beautiful anchorages. If the nettles are out come Hartmiller or north and the waters are sting free. Ironically with the lack of run off this past year, the bays oxygen levels were the best they've been in years.

I learned to water ski as a child in the bay one day in the late '60s when the water was white with Sea Nettles...........(jelly fish for you non-locals)

[Gelfling]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Wow, Old Familycruisers guy has come out swinging this AM. The OP didn't say anything about getting proper training at first. He even went so far as to say he didn't have any money for chartering etc. I think the forum helped slow him down just a tad.

Remember, folks are only trying to help this guy and his family. I think the thing that makes it different is that it isn't some old guy that is over 50 with his kids grown and on their own that has decided to go for a 400 mile sail solo, it's a guy with his wife and young children that has little or no experience.

I think what Familycruisers is trying to say is....different stokes for different folks. My first boat was a Ensenada 20, that I got for $800 (trailer included). I bought a $350 outboard for it and 'poured' a whopping $100 into cosmetics. So....for $1250 I owned a boat that I could learn to sail on....and learned for 4 years on that thing...I DID! Could I have chartered or taken 'lessons' on that dollar amount for 4 years? Not even CLOSE! Did I hurt myself or anyone else by doing it this way? NOPE.

But the first thing someone wants to say in a post like this is...... NOOOO, can't be done..... you will get hurt, you will hurt someone else. Blah blah, blah! Keep you self imposed limitations to yourself and offer advice that will help!

Nomad.....just looked at that blog. OUTSTANDING! You have already been living the cruising lifestyle more fully than most of the folks on CF, me included. IMO, there should be many coming to YOU about the lifestyle. Don't worry about the sailing part. I agree it is not like flying a 737, but to be honest it is probably harder to drive that big bus of yours around than it is to sail! (lots more space in the open water....other than a few freighters and occasional passersby, you got all the space you need out there!) I look forward to see your blog once you have moved from land to sea! Take care!

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Gelfling

I think what Familycruisers is trying to say is....different stokes for different folks. My first boat was a Ensenada 20, that I got for $800 (trailer included). I bought a $350 outboard for it and 'poured' a whopping $100 into cosmetics. So....for $1250 I owned a boat that I could learn to sail on....and learned for 4 years on that thing...I DID! Could I have chartered or taken 'lessons' on that dollar amount for 4 years? Not even CLOSE! Did I hurt myself or anyone else by doing it this way? NOPE.

But the first thing someone wants to say in a post like this is...... NOOOO, can't be done..... you will get hurt, you will hurt someone else. Blah blah, blah! Keep you self imposed limitations to yourself and offer advice that will help!

Nomad.....just looked at that blog. OUTSTANDING! You have already been living the cruising lifestyle more fully than most of the folks on CF, me included. IMO, there should be many coming to YOU about the lifestyle. Don't worry about the sailing part. I agree it is not like flying a 737, but to be honest it is probably harder to drive that big bus of yours around than it is to sail! (lots more space in the open water....other than a few freighters and occasional passersby, you got all the space you need out there!) I look forward to see your blog once you have moved from land to sea! Take care!

Hey G,

Relax. Were your wife and children with you while you were doing all this?

My first rig was a 16' used Chincoteague Scow, 40 horse Johnson, and trailer for $300.00. On the way to the ramp, one of the rusty rims on the trailer disintegrated. We " borrowed " another one and went anyway...................got almost to Tangier before the motor quit. Btw, this all occurred around.............1970 when I was 16 and my partner (my brother who paid half) was 14!

I learned a ton from that boat before the bottom came off!

I think your main problem is your location. You grew up on the wrong side of the darn bay! I was taught at a young age never to trust anyone from " the other side"......Jeez, the sun goes down over the bay not the other way around...............

But seriously, this Nomad dude wasn't talking about going out on the bay during a light wind summer's day sail like you. He was talking sailing the big water (what we call seaside on the shore) and with very little experience . . . .

[msponer]

I haven't sailed much around Florida and the Caribbean. Given the right seasons, are the waters there actually dangerous?

I feel like people who start from the West Coast of America have it very easy, compared to people who are starting from, say, South Africa or New Zealand, where just outside the harbor the sea can be truly dangerous. That's a pretty unforgiving place to start from and learn in, when your first major passage is something like 'Aukland to Fiji' or 'Cape Town to Brazil'.

Maybe I am wrong, but I think the entire Pacific coast from Southern California and through most of Mexico, at least past Acapulco, has completely benign weather. Outside of hurricanes, I don't think it ever gets intrinsically dangerous. Even the Santa Ana's that funnel down Baja are within a scale that is easily handled by typical anchoring systems, especially since the achorages in that area are good. And the minor capes are pretty minor, and do not yield lee shores -- there's always a safe and easy option to turn around and try to round it again later.

If I were to make up what's important in those waters, it's good navigation and anchoring. Both of which are pretty easy to learn, and are more about having a conservative mindset and mostly following a formulae that other people can tell you. The things that take more practice to learn, like good boat handling in large wind and waves, or to change your personality to have (good decision making), are not really necessary and could be developed as one sails in those waters.

So I consider California an easy or forgiving place to start from. You have months/years to learn as you are doing, without having to worry about being in truly dangerous conditions or even difficult navigation (the coast is pretty obvious when you approach it, and there are few offshore rocks or hazards, unlike extended offshore reefs in some other parts of the world). I don't think that I was even likely to encounter unforgiving conditions until... Maybe a quarter of the way across the South Pacific, possibly the waters off Suvarov where, for some reason, I know a lot of people who have hit their first gale there (though for us, at least, a pretty mellow one, compared to what's possible off South Africa or in other parts of the world, and with no adverse current and infinite sea room anyways).

So I'm just wondering, if leaving from Florida is about the same. I know very little about the Gulf Stream, but I suspect that there's a conservative, formulaic, way to just wait for the right time and dart across it with a short hop so you can set yourself up so that there's not even a possibilty of being in truly dangerous conditions. Which may then leave these folks to concentrate on learning and handling the basics (navigation and anchoring) well, and can then get better at the rest as they go.

Just my opinion, anyway. I'm curious what you guys think.

[Gelfling]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Hey G,

Relax. Were your wife and children with you while you were doing all this?

My first rig was a 16' used Chincoteague Scow, 40 horse Johnson, and trailer for $300.00. On the way to the ramp, one of the rusty rims on the trailer disintegrated. We " borrowed " another one and went anyway...................got almost to Tangier before the motor quit. Btw, this all occurred around.............1970 when I was 16 and my partner (my brother who paid half) was 14!

I learned a ton from that boat before the bottom came off!

I think your main problem is your location. You grew up on the wrong side of the darn bay! I was taught at a young age never to trust anyone from " the other side"......Jeez, the sun goes down over the bay not the other way around...............

But seriously, this Nomad dude wasn't talking about going out on the bay during a light wind summer's day sail like you. He was talking sailing the big water (what we call seaside on the shore) and with very little experience . . . .

Haha! I grew up in Europe(though born in VA)....so I guess you can say 'wrong side of the bay'. But seriously, if we are not out traveling the East Coast in the future...I do hope I end up on the Eastern Shore....FOR SURE!

My growing up in Europe is probably the reason for being so uptight about 'opinions', well the American variety anyway. And before responding, I did the OP a favor and looked at the blog he created. Though there can be no denying that he is crazy (the good kind!) it is quite obvious that he isn't stupid. Immediately the thread turns to a 'how stupid can one person be' type deal. Live and let live. I would happily share my knowledge of sailing with a family like this in exchange for some knowledge on their lifestyle and how they accomplish it.

I can say....after sailing for more than a decade, I am POSITIVE that I won't know everything there is to be learned from it. I started late, and I only have but so many decades left. But then again, that is probably why I am so attracted to sailing....and....anyone that says sailing is 'boring' never leaves the dock!

[familycruisers]

Meterologic advancements pretty much gives you the advance warning for weather. With the intercoastal you can go from Cape May NJ all the way around Florida and up into the southern states with never having to put your keel in blue water. Not that one needs blue water to get scary water.
I think the East Coast would be classified as easy and the west coast as moderate in terms of ease of cruising.

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by familycruisers

Which is exactly what they are doing. I don't see your comments as being edited to reflect your new found knowledge that they are educating themselves.
The "my tax dollars" comment was arrogant, imo of course. I dont think I saw one post that advised to simply buy the boat, cast off, and sail over the horizon.
Most yahoos I've seen that needed rescue typically are the ones with more money than brains.
Maybe you should change your screen name to Learntosailsoyoudontusemytaxesnow.

Sure he did ... so let's be fair about this and read all the thread ourselves:

Thats great , far more mature things to do , go for it.

Dave