Tying up 42' boat at short dock

[TacomaSailor]

We are considering an annual rental of a 3-bedroom home in Punta Gorda, Florida. It has 100' of seawall with a great view across a turning basin. The home is only 1/2 mile from open water for sailing.

BUT...

The dock is only 15' long with three pilings supporting it. The dock is parallel to the seawall.

Is it possible to safely and securely dock a 42-foot 12-ton cutter on a 15' long dock?

I am thinking we would let the stern extend 8' aft of the dock and tie the stern cleat to the west end of the dock. The boat's boarding gate is 12' forward of the stern and would therefore be near the middle third of the dock.

The midship cleat would then be right at the east end of the dock for attachment to the dock cleat.

But - that puts the bow cleat 19-feet east of the east end of the dock. I guess I would tie the bow cleat to the dock and to a new cleat I would install on the seawall.

Any suggestions or comments from boaters with experience?

[Vasco]

I would moor the boat with the dock in the middle (equal overhangs on stern and bow) and install secure attachment points on the seawall fore and aft for the bow and stern lines. In addition, depending on the protection of the area, I might have a couple of breast lines.

[oldcal46skipper]

We do this sort of mooring often here in Bayou Chico, NW Florida. Consider tide, prevailing wind, current and wakes.

Tidal range- allow adequate dock line scope to handle low to high tides

Prevailing winds- direction, intensity. Not bad if blowing away from the dock, but can be a problem if toward the dock. I set two or more "hold off" pilings, one bow, one stern and if needed a breast hold off. This may not be allowed or you do not have a work barge with "A" frame and pump. I have been setting pilings and repairing docks for over 20 years in our area. Contact me for more details.

Wakes- Regardless of the responsibility for damage, some alpha hotel boaters still travel at max wake speed. Many years ago, a few neighbors and I went to the County Commissioners and got our bayou declared an "Idle Speed Only" zone.

Good Luck,

Tom Vandiver, Cal 46 on Bayou Chico

[pskudlarski]

Other than the mechanics of tying the boat to short dock, you might look into the strength of the dock itself, it might be not designed to withstand forces resulting from tying a large boat, all depends on the position of the dock, how well it is protected from winds.

[Pirate007]

Hi Tacoma, we also have a Caliber 40LRC in Palmetto, FL and would not want to tie her to a 15' dock in the summer T-storms that can downdraft at 40+, or in the winter with the more long term northerlies that can reach 30-35+ for a more sustained time period. If you landlord would allow, pilings are cheap to install, either on your existing dock side or outside to hold you off the dock. Also, can you install cleats on the seawall? Sea Augers are also another option.

[svinvictus2]

It's an iffy thing you're proposing. I have a 46' Beneteau with davits and have been in the proposed situation for short periods of time. Additional cleats to the seawall, if permitted, is a great idea along with doubled breast lines. Should do the trick. One more thing that really helps especially when there are power boaters exceeding speed limits is to drop an anchor on the canal side of the boat. It need not go out too far. Usually those waters are so muddy that it will set quickly. All you need from it is to keep you off the dock when bow wakes come through.
Sail fast live slow!

[S/V Alchemy]

15 tonne 41' foot steel cutter here, and I would not do what you are proposing, because the odds of the short dock itself being strongly enough built are low and the chance the boat might hobby-horse enough to tear out planks and cleats (boat is stronger than the bollards) is in my view pretty likely.

I was in Antigua in 2014 for Hurricane Gonzalo and saw even boats around the 32 feet mark just shred short docks in sheltered canals at Jolly Harbour. I saw a 42 footer literally split a dock lengthwise and run rapidly aground dragging it aft. That was only *just* a hurricane of 60-88 knots, and Florida can have microbursts in that range every day. You may wish to rethink this. Fifteen feet is the dock for a 90 HP runabout.

[Dave22q]

I would rig anchors fore and aft with enough scope to hold me just at the the dock at dead low water. That should be enough slack to cover high tide. Then dock lines from the end piles lines to the bow and stern. Of course your anchors will be set as temporary moorings with floats you can catch and tie to. You might need to adjust the mooring line lengths if you are too far from the dock at high tide. I would not count on the strength of the dock or piles as they were sized for much less boat.

[Colin A]

Is it a floating dock or a fixed dock? As mentioned an extra piling would make it better. I know several people here in the north east with 40-45' power boats on short 20' or so docks. The ones with less protected locations ended up adding a piling or two off the bow.

[Scout 30]

Without pictures or more information about how the dock is constructed it's hard to say this will or won't work. The size of the dock is not really what's important. Basically all the dock has to do is hold you off of the seawall & get you to the boat. As has been previously posted running lines to the corners of the lot will take the lateral strain off the dock & keep your boat in place along with spring lines from the dock to keep your fenders in place. In most marinas you're basically tying up to 4 pilings with a little finger pier so this is probably stronger than that. For big storms I run lines to the bow or stern & mid cleat from each corner of my lot & if it's a hurricane I run anchors off the other side of my boat. I've run the anchors out once in 30 years.

[SV Bacchus]

I had the same question as Colin, is it a floating dock? If so, no way.

Here in the Tampa area pilings are $600 each, installed, if they use a drill to set them (which, IMHO, is the proper way). Center the boat on the existing 15 foot dock and have two pilings set, one fore and one aft then tie off properly and never worry about it!

Work it out with your landlord to deduct the pilings off the rent. If he/she won't go for that keep negotiating and at least get 50% back. Consider the balance cheap insurance.

[Mazu]

I have a rental close to you by Charlotte Harbor and I have done lots of research before buying the house. First, many docks associated with homes or condos are regulated by the cities zoning. It may be the maximum size allowed for the property. Secondly, Punta Gorda is the only town in that area that covers sea wall maintenance/repair. All others require the homeowner to be responsible for it. Therefore the homeowner probably can not approve any modification to the sea wall or the dock currently attached to it without city approval. Any damage is the homeowners responsibility so if high winds cause your boat to tear off a piece of seawall your paying for it. Personally, I would go to Ft. Myers and rent a mooring. As you are going south over the bridge connecting Port Charlotte to Punta Gorda if you look left you will see a mooring field about a half mile away to the right. Avoid any problems and go there. I think it is the Ft. Myers public marina and the moorings are really cheap. Other options are to rent a dock from another homeowner close to you who does not use it. You can also get these really cheap as it is income that normally is not generated. The other option, providing you will be spending many seasons there is to have a private mooring set. Not sure exactly where you can do this around Punta but there are a few places you can do it in Englewood for $1000.

[KidSheeleen]

I have to agree with Mazu, check local ordinances! Concrete seawall is owned by the city/ county. home owners are pay a yearly tax for upkeep possibly you could add concrete in yard with posts or rings to secure lines. Do not tie any lines to palm trees or mangrove tree! Palm have very little root system and fall over easy. Mangrove are a protected tree species in Fl.
If I had a spare dock, you could tie there however, no room. There are 3-4 marinas in area of PG and several in surrounding area. Also can check Craig's list for dock rentals at private homes which may better accommodate your craft. Good Hunting/Luck in quest. PM me if need any info of area.

[TacomaSailor]

Thanks for all the great comments!

The three pilings and dock are less than one-year old. The pilings are standard 12" wood pilings and the dock is 2" x 6" cross members from the seawall to the piling and between pilings. The deck is poured concrete.

I've attached an annotated image and a picture (not good but the only one available) of the dock from the yard.

The brother of the current tenant kept his Tartan 40' at the dock for short periods but did not feel it was safe there overnight or in stormy weather. I've asked him to call me.

We really like the house and location and want to try to make the dock work. We moved our boat to Punta Gorda from San Diego with the intent of buying a house and living here for a while. But after just four months in the hot, humid weather we are beginning to wonder if this really is the place to put down roots after so many years on the boat.

We want to rent a house with a dock and they are few and far between at any price below $4,000/month.

Cape Coral does not work for us because we cannot get under the Cape Coral bridge nor can we get under the powerlines near the Yacht Club. And, sailing in the Caloosahatchee River south of the bridge is terrible. Most of the water is less than 6' (we need 5' 6") and the power boats make horrible wakes.

The water near Venice/Englewood is even skinnier and we can only navigate in the ICW out there.

[TacomaSailor]

I will reply to several of the helpful and thoughtful replies offered to my OP. Our experience might be of benefit to others thinking of moving to an area such as Cape Coral or Punta Gorda.

KidShaleen said: "There are 3-4 marinas in area of PG and several in surrounding area. Also can check Craig's list for dock rentals at private homes which may better accommodate your craft."

We are currently in Burnt Store which is a fantastic marina. We are renting a small townhouse which is just 300-yards across the road from our boat. The problem is the $2,000/month 2-bed/2-bath high end townhouse goes up to $3,500/month in November - April and Burnt Store charges us $614/month for slip rental. Burnt Store is 14-miles South of Punta Gorda but is right on Charlotte Harbor.

Mariners Village Marina in Punta Gorda is also very nice. BUT... November thru April there is ZERO change of finding a parking place within 1/2 mile of the marina. Snow Birds and all. We tried there several times in March and never actually made it to the parking lot because of the backed up traffic.

The other Punta Gorda marinas are east of the US-41 Highway bridge which has 45-foot vertical clearance and we need 61-feet.

The marinas out by Gasparilla, Venice, Englewood are all in very shallow water. Nav charts show it to be at least 5 nautical miles to any water over 7' deep and more than 1/4 mile wide.

Cape Coral marina is very cheap for a Cape Coral resident but very expensive, with no open slips, for a non-resident.

The Ft Myers Beach mooring fields are an absolute zoo. It is not uncommon for it to take 30-minutes to make it from Summerlin Rd to a possible parking area for the mooring fields, during the winter season.

We found several Punta Gorda houses (for sale or rent) with no dock, or small docks, and tried to convince neighbors to let us lease their dock but, LIABILITY, was always their concern. I tried to show them my boat insurance policy would name them as an additional insured but an extra $400/month is not much to someone who owns a $500,000 home when compared to the imagined liability.

We even looked into joining the Punta Gorda Yacht Club (Isles) who did have a slip for us. That would be a reasonable but the monthly dues and the mandatory minimum restaurant/bar tab start to make it expensive.

Punta Gorda has a rule for docking boats at seawalls. There is an imaginary line extended from the point where each property line meets the seawall seaward such that the two lines meet some distance seaward of the seawall. No part of a docked boat may touch those lines.

The geometry is such that our 42' LOA boat with a 10' wide stern and bowsprit 11' from the seawall needs a 52-foot long seawall to dock parallel to the wall on a standard dock, which is 4' wide.

Many Punta Gorda lots are only 45' wide.

HONC Marine (the biggest dock builder) can add an additional 20-feet of dock for us at a cost of $3000 to $4000.

We just came back from visiting the house and my wife tells me the toilets barely flushed and the showers had no water pressure. She spent 34-years working public water distribution and quality control and is very finicky about such details.

The dock and less than 15-minute motoring access to deep sailing water is all I care about.

We've looked at many older homes with nice seawalls, good docks, and quick access to Charlotte Harbor. The problem is that homes prior to about 1985 were built at an elevation of 9-feet above sea level. Current minimum elevation is 10' in all of Punta Gorda where a sailboat can dock.

Punta Gorda will not allow a home owner to spend more that 50% of the appraised value of just the house (not land, not pool, not dock -just the house) on upgrades, renovations, or improvements. The amount resets every 5-years so eventually the home can be renovated but it would take many years.

For example we found a beautiful "tip lot" (on the end of a street where the water and seawall wraps around three sides of the lot) with 181' of seawall, a nice dock, and big mango trees. The house was 50-years old and had never been updated. The city appraisal on the house was $132,000 and $400,000 for the land. That meant we could only spend $66,000 on the renovation, which was about half of what the contractor estimated would be needed for the 1st phase of the renovation (kitchen, and remove some non-load bearing walls to open up the interior).