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Old 29-12-2008, 00:23   #61
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Where? Inland rules with comments Searching for the term "right of way" gives four hits, all in the commentary.
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Old 29-12-2008, 07:43   #62
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Read rule 9
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Old 29-12-2008, 08:30   #63
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Rule 9 and 14 refer to "right of way" in great lakes and western rivers as defined in rule 3 and waters specified by the secretary. The vessel traveling downbound shall initiate the maneuvering signals ...Rule 34 (a) i ii

I think rule 2 (a) and (b) ...and Rule 8 especially (e) and (f ) i ii and iii are the guiding rules here.
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Old 29-12-2008, 09:06   #64
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I think ...Rule 8 especially ...(f ) i ii and iii are the guiding rules here.
I think it's highly unlikely the "not impeding" rules were applicable, unless rules 10 or 18 were in play.
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Old 29-12-2008, 09:37   #65
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It does APPEAR the smaller vessel is approaching from the starboard side of the larger vessel giving it the right of way. But that did not help him much did it? The only caveat is if the larger vessel is restricted in his ability to maneuver such as a deep draft in a narrow channel. The rules of the road also say ALL skippers must take corrective action to avoid a collision and it would appear but we don't know for sure that neither did so. If they were approaching each other bow to bow, they are both obligated to turn slightly and pass port to port. The other unwritten rule is the bigger guy ALWAYS has the right of way. What a stupid, unnecessary event. We can only hope no one was seriously injured because of someone else's stupidity.
My vote too.
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Old 29-12-2008, 10:16   #66
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Wouldn't 17c Suggest that if a crossing situation, the smaller vessel should not turn to port ..toward a vessel on it's own port side. Rather apply the rules of 8 actions to avoid collision?

10 or 18 may or may not have been in play, but in all scenarios I think rule 8 would still apply.

Slow down, assess the situation, take early, positive, substantial action to avoid collision, passing at a safe distance.
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Old 29-12-2008, 14:40   #67
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Read rule 9
My error for not searching on "right-of-way" as well as "right of way". Nonetheless, Rule 9 covers a special circumstance and the Rules, as a whole, do not use the term or concept commonly.

Nonetheless, consider the following:
Here lies the body of Michael ODay,
Who died maintaining his right of way.
He was right, dead right, as he sailed along,
But hes just as dead as if hed been wrong.
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Old 29-12-2008, 15:16   #68
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I think that some of you may have missed the crew-member working on the fore-deck of the larger vessel. It appears to me as though they may have been weighing anchor. If they were under-way, they may have been moving dead-slow and may have had no maneuverability.
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Old 02-01-2009, 10:24   #69
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Bottom line. Why didn't one or both slow down? Reminds me of the Gulf of Mex around Galveston as a younger fool. It appeared that the Cajun Shrimpers would collide rather than give right of way to each other. Some ended up 'Dead Wrong' This was just stupidity and BS
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Old 04-01-2009, 12:20   #70
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Carrier has the right of way as she's restricted in her ability to maneuver. If you notice they are fod'ing the deck in order to receive aircraft. And I don't think anyone would or could force her to yield.
I can see it now, some skipper standing on the bow of his boat yelling up 15 stories to the helmsman to turn to port..
That would make a really great You Tube video
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Old 12-01-2009, 15:47   #71
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My bet would be the larger vessel was on autopilot and noone was performing watch duties. When you find yourself in a situation like this one way to determine whether you are stand-on or burdened vessel is ask yourself what color bow light would you see if the light was on. Red usually means you're the burdened vessel. And if you are the burdened vessel the course correction you make needs to be "early and substantial" not the gentle veering we so often see.
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Old 13-01-2009, 08:29   #72
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San Francisco Bay is a congested area to sail during the summer. When approaching another vessel I leave no doubt what my intentions are. My bow moves dramatically, so they know my intended direction. If there's no response I give way for fear of them not knowing what to do........i2f
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Old 13-01-2009, 17:53   #73
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I think that some of you may have missed the crew-member working on the fore-deck of the larger vessel. It appears to me as though they may have been weighing anchor. If they were under-way, they may have been moving dead-slow and may have had no maneuverability.
Kanani takes the seegar!

For my money, the big boat was either anchoring or weighing anchor. Either way, I reckon she has ground tackle out and is therefore not making way and so doesn't give way. Therefore the little boat is dead wrong and in a heap of trouble.

Clues to this are: crew at the stem (as Kanani rightly points out... you see him run away just before the little boat hits), being head to wind and the lack of movement of the land off in the distance (hard to judge).

But the really big clue is the relative movement of the two boats after the collision. Had the BIG boat been moving, I think there is no way the little boat would continue to move past her bows. Instead the BIG boat (with FAR more mass and so momentum and also supposedly still under power) would have continued to move forwards and the two may have come together with the little boat passing down the starboard side of the big boat. That didn't happen.

I believe the perceived "movement" of the big boat is simply the chop moving past the large boat thereby making her appear to move in the film.

At least, that's the way I read it. Now, I wonder if the big boat had her day shape out...??
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Old 13-01-2009, 19:11   #74
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You can see the sea bottom going under the big boat. However, it appears to be dead slow, as in motoring-up on an anchor. That vessel doesn't appear to have much way on. It certainly did not have enough speed to take evasive action other than to stop, which it apparently did. The smaller vessel was moving at a high rate of speed and should have stayed well clear of any vessel that may have been anchored.

As you have rightly pointed out, the larger vessel did not over-take the smaller vessel after the collision. Also, had that vessel had any way on at the time of impact, it may well have pushed the bow under on the smaller vessel.
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Old 14-01-2009, 18:33   #75
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You can see the sea bottom going under the big boat. However, it appears to be dead slow, as in motoring-up on an anchor. That vessel doesn't appear to have much way on. It certainly did not have enough speed to take evasive action other than to stop, which it apparently did. The smaller vessel was moving at a high rate of speed and should have stayed well clear of any vessel that may have been anchored.

As you have rightly pointed out, the larger vessel did not over-take the smaller vessel after the collision. Also, had that vessel had any way on at the time of impact, it may well have pushed the bow under on the smaller vessel.
I think that is the most plausible interpretation of the video. I had noticed that the large boat appeared to be moving slowly according to the bottom, but even after watching it several times could not decide how slow.

But I hadn't keyed in on the significance of the movement after the collision.

Not germane to the discussion, but did you notice that there was someone up front on the smaller boat? They scramble aft down the port side just before the collision.

-dan
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