MOB for Couples

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

One isolated incident in one set of conditions, does not make you an expert, Ken.


The next time in different conditions may be totally different from what happened then.


I have saved an MOB once, and I've been MOB myself twice, but that by itself does not make me an expert, either. You have to study, practice, study, think, read, and listen to people who have other experience and other knowledge -- only like that will you gradually become knowledgeable.



Make up your own mind of course -- you're the skipper on your own boat and solely responsible for the safety of those on board -- but I would suggest approaching the transom of your boat sometime when she's lying at anchor in lively weather with wave action, and observing the interaction of the counter with the water. You'll find it educational.

I have climbed aboard our transon sugar scoop when things were a little rough, and it wasn’t nearly as bad as you and others have described it... certainly not “a death trap.” Maybe the stern of our Hunter 450 and Oysters are of a different design and less of a “death trap” than yours or other peoples boats. Who knows?

Meanwhile, I’ll go with my actual real life experience over your practice sessions any day, just as I look to others on this forum and the Morgans forum for real-life experiences over theory-based answers.

Even during your practice sessions last season, wouldn’t it have been much easier to bring your MOBs back onboard if your Moody had a sugar scoop? I maintain that the vast majority of MOB situations, especially for cruising couples, actually occur in benign conditions when the situation is unexpected, so why not practice for this type of recovery? Very few of us intentionally head out in foul weather, and when we do find ourselves in that sort of weather, we use tethers, harnesses and jack lines, so our chance of going over the side is greatly reduced.

[Dave_S]

Do you think the odds are overstated because not many successful recoveries are reported v all unsuccessful ones.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

Do you think the odds are overstated because not many successful recoveries are reported v all unsuccessful ones.

I’d agree. The only MOB rescues we hear about are the unsuccessful attempts which usually take place in foul weather conditions. The real-life situation I found myself in, just tends to get belittled on a forum like this by the “experts” and would otherwise go unreported if I didn’t mention it as a point of information to hopefully inform others. It seems to me that another fellow New Englander and I were the first to bring up the need for dry suits on this forum, which were then diminished (poo pooed) by the same “experts.”

Sometimes... I really wonder why I bother.

[thinwater]

Lots of good responses.


In post 20 the questions was posed, how do you recover a person who cannot help themselves, perhaps largely overcome by cold or fatigue?
* A rescue swimmer is out of the question in 99% of circumstances. Although with a dry suit, safety line, sails down, and moderate conditions I can imagine it. But you are not likely to be prepared.

* You can't just manhandle them up. A winch will be needed. But what to attach it to? Wearing some manner of harness is going to help a lot.
* How do you get in contact with them, if they cannot get into a Lifesling or grab a throw bag or swim a little? A long boat hook is may be functional if they are wearing a harness, but only if the conditions are moderate. I also like a 20-40" length of rope in the cockpit with a wire gate carabiner; it's lightning fast to clip on and can be used for many things, including non-MOB contingencies.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Lots of good responses.


In post 20 the questions was posed, how do you recover a person who cannot help themselves, perhaps largely overcome by cold or fatigue?
* A rescue swimmer is out of the question in 99% of circumstances. Although with a dry suit, safety line, sails down, and moderate conditions I can imagine it. But you are not likely to be prepared.

* You can't just manhandle them up. A winch will be needed. But what to attach it to? Wearing some manner of harness is going to help a lot.
* How do you get in contact with them, if they cannot get into a Lifesling or grab a throw bag or swim a little? A long boat hook is may be functional if they are wearing a harness, but only if the conditions are moderate. I also like a 20-40" length of rope in the cockpit with a wire gate carabiner; it's lightning fast to clip on and can be used for many things, including non-MOB contingencies.

I think you're missing the point I've been trying to make. Very few MOB situations happen which require any of the preparations you mention above. We should be discussing what to do in the common everyday situations, not the extreme conditions that only a few will ever encounter in a lifetime of cruising. Having a sugar scoop or easy method to board the boat is fundamental for these common situations.

Otherwise, to me worrying about what to do in 30ft seas and how to crane a MOB aboard in 40 know winds is simply a waste of cyberspace IMO. It's a discussion without any practical application.

BTW: A LifeSling rescue involves having the sails up and not using the engine.

[hpeer]

But even moderately cold water can turn a “benign” situation into something much more sinister.

Those of us that don’t have sugar scoops need to have some other method. For us it requires dropping sails, swinging the boom forward and kicking it (Dutchman brake), and using a handybilly to a winch.

Alternatively, or maybe primatial my, we have our outboard handybilly mounted to the arch. That would, in even mild swell, allow a recovery over the stern. Lots of line to get handy billy to a winch. Would probably loose a few teeth and maybe suffer a concussion in the process.

[psk125]

To simulate more realistic drift, "keeping in sight", and "getting incapacitated back aboard", we do MOB drills using watermelons. Floating in the water, they're about the same size as a person's head, and don't blow away. Getting them aboard requires stopping the boat completely and getting a good hold. Adding a harness (if you can work it out) would enable hooking them to a winch if you want that much practice.

Getting MOB back aboard is difficult, even with a fully-crewed boat. One idea perhaps worth trying is a parbuckle. It can lift a victim even without a harness. You need a triangular tarp or sail, perhaps 8' or 10' to a side with lines on the corners. Our sailmaker suggests having a few holes to allow any water to drain out. Attach two corners to stanchion bases on the leeward side, where the victim is. Slip the other corner around/outside the victim & lead that corner's line to a winch. The parbuckle provides 2:1 lift in addition to the winch's mechanical advantage. The victim is held snugly against the boat and ends up rolling onto the deck with minimal effort. We also have our lifelines set up with lashings on the ends that can be quickly cut to release them if they get in the way.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by hpeer

But even moderately cold water can turn a “benign” situation into something much more sinister.

Those of us that don’t have sugar scoops need to have some other method. For us it requires dropping sails, swinging the boom forward and kicking it (Dutchman brake), and using a handybilly to a winch.

Alternatively, or maybe primatial my, we have our outboard handybilly mounted to the arch. That would, in even mild swell, allow a recovery over the stern. Lots of line to get handy billy to a winch. Would probably loose a few teeth and maybe suffer a concussion in the process.

Buy a gunwale or transom boarding ladder like one of these: https://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-...50?recordNum=2

[Shrew]

[QUOTE=hpeer;2857237]

One thing not mentioned is how to retrieve the MOB. /QUOTE]

Lifesling

Post #1; #2; #5; #8;

[boatman61]

A longer boat hook to keep em under..

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

BTW: A LifeSling rescue involves having the sails up and not using the engine.

Have you ever looked at a Lifesling (he says sarcastically because I know you have...)? I think the question of using a Lifesling is independent of motor vs sail (which is a ‘nother long and unresolvable argument).

Having a roller furling main and a boat that doesn't heave to particularly well has left us in a bit of a bind. As is relatively common, there are only two of us and a disparity between our physical strengths and comfort with boat handling. We fall in to the heave-to and evaluate crowd with the optimal outcome being: roll in the sails, deploy the Lifesling and motor back like we were picking up a water skier. We've screwed around with hoisting a back on board a bit, but after reading Thinwater's blog post, I am off to MEC to buy a rescue pulley.

Actually our optimal plan is as Mike says: Don't. Fall. OFF!

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Macblaze

Have you ever looked at a Lifesling (he says sarcastically because I know you have...)? I think the question of using a Lifesling is independent of motor vs sail (which is a ‘nother long and unresolvable argument).

Having a roller furling main and a boat that doesn't heave to particularly well has left us in a bit of a bind. As is relatively common, there are only two of us and a disparity between our physical strengths and comfort with boat handling. We fall in to the heave-to and evaluate crowd with the optimal outcome being: roll in the sails, deploy the Lifesling and motor back like we were picking up a water skier. We've screwed around with hoisting a back on board a bit, but after reading Thinwater's blog post, I am off to MEC to buy a rescue pulley.

Actually our optimal plan is as Mike says: Don't. Fall. OFF!

You need to read the extended version of directions or watch the video more closely. Using a LifeSling involves immediately tacking into the wind without touching the jib sheet and letting it backwind, then sailing a circle around the MOB without touching the sails, assuming they're somewhat close-hauled. It's fast and doesn't require any more effort for your significant other than by yourself. Easy peasy. My wife executes the rescue just as easily as I can, you should also be able to do it on your Hunter.

After the circular sail around the MOB is complete which takes about a minute or two, the life ring will be with the MOB who can then be pulled towards the now stalled boat via heaving to. Motoring back to the MOB when on a sailboat is discouraged for safety reasons.

"Don't fall off!" is not a viable plan for MOB recovery, but seems to be often repeated here on CF.

[Discovery 15797]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

I don't recall the MOB or his dog being knocked out or having their arms or legs ripped off when I brought them back on board using our sugar scoop stern. Maybe you should try the heave to maneuver to settle the motion prior to boarding.

My experience was different than what you describe. Most MOB situations happen in relatively benign conditions, when boarding is easy peasy via the sugar scoop. Why is this? Because... most boaters only go out in the most benign of conditions.

Therefore, I suggest that it's appropriate to practice MOB situations in relatively benign conditions because that's when a MOB is most likely to occur IMO.

Sorry, I have to disagree with your earlier assertion that the attitude of the boat at the bow is the same as at the stern. There is a reason why most vessels have boarding ladders amidship.

Additionally, your assertion that 'most MOB situations occur in benign conditions' is without data, and most likely not addressing the OP's concern in which a MOB situation occurs at sea with actual waves.

But, experience is a great teacher. Your experience and your typical sailing conditions seem rather benign so that the attitude of your boat never pitches...good on you sir. My experience is quite different.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Discovery 15797

Sorry, I have to disagree with your earlier assertion that the attitude of the boat at the bow is the same as at the stern. There is a reason why most vessels have boarding ladders amidship.

Additionally, your assertion that 'most MOB situations occur in benign conditions' is without data, and most likely not addressing the OP's concern in which a MOB situation occurs at sea with actual waves.

But, experience is a great teacher. Your experience and your typical sailing conditions seem rather benign so that the attitude of your boat never pitches...good on you sir. My experience is quite different.

Yes definitely, our "typical sailing conditions seem rather benign." I hardly think there would be any statistics on routine MOB rescues when everything works out fine. Was I supposed to report it to some agency?

Again... sometimes I wonder why I bother to get involved in these discussions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roLIEIjsd18

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Discovery 15797

Sorry, I have to disagree with your earlier assertion that the attitude of the boat at the bow is the same as at the stern. There is a reason why most vessels have boarding ladders amidship.

Additionally, your assertion that 'most MOB situations occur in benign conditions' is without data, and most likely not addressing the OP's concern in which a MOB situation occurs at sea with actual waves.

But, experience is a great teacher. Your experience and your typical sailing conditions seem rather benign so that the attitude of your boat never pitches...good on you sir. My experience is quite different.

Yes definitely, our "typical sailing conditions seem rather benign." I hardly think there would be any statistics on routine MOB rescues when everything works out fine. Was I supposed to report it to some agency?

Again... sometimes I wonder why I bother to get involved in these discussions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roLIEIjsd18