Genoa trim

[sagablu]

Good day all,

There is an area of the bay I sail in for day trips that seems to funnel the wind. So while passing this area this weekend there was a lot of heeling, a lot of weather helm ( into the wind) . So I reefed the main and let it out quite a bit. However the boat does not heel much or move much under the main alone regardless of reef or trim. Typical of my '76 Pearson 10M so I understand. So how do I trim the 135% Genny? I had the jib car back and the sheets eased, about 3-4 Ft from the spreader. As the heeling seemed to get worse as I pulled in the sheet, that seemed about right. After I thought I should have furled the Genny a few turns, yes? What should I do with the halyard? More or less tension?

The screaming of my very attractive passenger made it a bit hard to take some time to evaluate trim changes. I pulled in the Genny and put in second reef. When I set the Genny again I was out of the big wind so all was calm

Any advice to handle such a scenario? I need advice on trim, not the screaming.

Thank you...

[Don C L]

Hmmm, little confusing from the description... but I certainly understand being rattled by screaming attractive passengers... hmm, never sailed a Pearson 10m but assuming you are close-hauled, and want to stay that way, I'd say don't relieve halyard tension, reduce the genoa to 90% (that is so the clew is forward of the shrouds a bit, i.e. when you tack the sail is not hitting the shrouds) and put one reef in the main. If it is still heeling too much and/or there is still too much screaming, then another reef in the main. But if the higher winds are localized, can you just head off, reach, a bit for that stretch? You might let your attractive friend have a turn at the helm so that he or she can see that sailboats can lean way over without tipping over. Screaming should subside and laughing may ensue.

[sagablu]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Hmmm, little confusing from the description... but I certainly understand being rattled by screaming attractive passengers... hmm, never sailed a Pearson 10m but assuming you are close-hauled, and want to stay that way, I'd say don't relieve halyard tension, reduce the genoa to 90% (that is so the clew is forward of the shrouds a bit, i.e. when you tack the sail is not hitting the shrouds) and put one reef in the main. If it is still heeling too much and/or there is still too much screaming, then another reef in the main. But if the higher winds are localized, can you just head off, reach, a bit for that stretch? You might let your attractive friend have a turn at the helm so that he or she can see that sailboats can lean way over without tipping over. Screaming should subside and laughing may ensue.

I missed that detail, I was on a beam reach. When you say head off you mean downwind, correct? It seems that down wind seems to make the boat heel more. Perhaps I should head downwind more?

She was actually on the wheel at the time this started, she gave up when the boat rounded up. I have also had the " the boat will not capsize from wind" conversation more than once. Others have told her the same. Still working on that.

[Don C L]

ah sounds like the main was sheeted in too tight perhaps. No I wasn't saying turn dead downwind, but if so it should not be heeling more. Rolling from side to side maybe but not heeling. Sounds like too much of both sails up. Any idea of wind speed?

[sagablu]

Originally Posted by Don C L

ah sounds like the main was sheeted in too tight perhaps. No I wasn't saying turn dead downwind, but if so it should not be heeling more. Rolling from side to side maybe but not heeling. Sounds like too much of both sails up. Any idea of wind speed?

The mainsheet was eased, a lot. The boom was at about a 45 deg from the centerline. Not sure on windspeed, I do not have an speed indicator. Maybe 20 knots?

[Don C L]

Well a full 135 and full main will be overpowering the boat in 20 kts, so I’d go with the 90 and the main reefed. Any idea how much you were heeling? More than 20 degrees?

[sagablu]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Well a full 135 and full main will be overpowering the boat in 20 kts, so I’d go with the 90 and the main reefed. Any idea how much you were heeling? More than 20 degrees?

I had the main in the second reef with the main sheet eased quite a bit. Yes, I was at least 20 degrees over, didn't check the inclinometer though.

I can roll in the 135, it didn't seem to help that much last time I tried unless I brought it in a lot, to the point of the shape being bad. My main question is how to trim the genny, car forward or back? How close to the spreader? All this assuming a beam reach and around 20 knots.

Anyway, thank you for taking the time to help me.

[Suijin]

You can either furl the genny a bit (along with the main), or fall off to a reach until you are out of the wind funnel area.

Tightening the halyard would theoretically help, a bit, to flatten the sail and depower it a bit, but probably not much and it's effectiveness is almost completely negated as soon as you furl the sail.

If it's just one area with these conditions and I were just out for a nice sail and not hell bent on making VMG upwind I'd just fall off and ease the sheets until I was out of it.

[sagablu]

Originally Posted by Suijin

You can either furl the genny a bit (along with the main), or fall off to a reach until you are out of the wind funnel area.

Tightening the halyard would theoretically help, a bit, to flatten the sail and depower it a bit, but probably not much and it's effectiveness is almost completely negated as soon as you furl the sail.

If it's just one area with these conditions and I were just out for a nice sail and not hell bent on making VMG upwind I'd just fall off and ease the sheets until I was out of it.

Thank you. It seems from your response and those of Don is that I should head more downwind. I have been heading up ( a lot), almost to the point of luffing to calm things down.

If I just need to make reduce the heeling a bit and gain control, jib sheets more tight or loose?

[donradcliffe]

The genoa sail shape isn't that critical when you are reaching. Just furl it in until you can sheet in a stop luffing the sail, but not heel over too far.

[Snore]

Not sure where you Genoa tracks are located. But this is how I sail my Tartan 33 beam reach- when the wind is puffy and I have the 150 up

Jib sheet routed to leeward through a snatch block clipped to the toe rail. This opens up the slot and gives me a nicer sail shape. Without the snatch block the jib gets a hook in the shape.

Main - the main is trimmed to fly all the tell tales- until she starts getting so much Weather helm I need too much rudder to hold a course. I then ease the sheet.

Sometimes the jib back winds the main and creates a “bump” in the main. That is okay! This bump means less rudder and often better speed. It will always yield a flatter ride.

I am assuming the traveler is already all the way to leeward.

[sagablu]

Originally Posted by Snore

Not sure where you Genoa tracks are located. But this is how I sail my Tartan 33 beam reach- when the wind is puffy and I have the 150 up

Jib sheet routed to leeward through a snatch block clipped to the toe rail. This opens up the slot and gives me a nicer sail shape. Without the snatch block the jib gets a hook in the shape.

Main - the main is trimmed to fly all the tell tales- until she starts getting so much Weather helm I need too much rudder to hold a course. I then ease the sheet.

Sometimes the jib back winds the main and creates a “bump” in the main. That is okay! This bump means less rudder and often better speed. It will always yield a flatter ride.

I am assuming the traveler is already all the way to leeward.

Thanks Snore, this is helpful.

Yes, I kicked the traveler all the way leeward and then eased the sheet.

I do have a outboard track that I assume is for a spinnaker that I do not have. It has a block with a swivel and a spring. I suppose if I cannot make due with the set-up I have I could get snatch blocks for those tracks.

[eyschulman]

The simple and most direct solution to your problem is less sail. How much less and fore or aft is a mater of balance and differs from boat to boat. The secret is to have fast effective means of reefing and reef early. The above is my mantra and that of many single handers. It also works when you have landlubbers aboard. The nitty gritty of sail trim is very secondary once the sail area is reduced to the appropriate level and balance. Best to err on the side of over reefing always easy to let more sail out once things settle down.

[sagablu]

Originally Posted by eyschulman

The simple and most direct solution to your problem is less sail. How much less and fore or aft is a mater of balance and differs from boat to boat. The secret is to have fast effective means of reefing and reef early. The above is my mantra and that of many single handers. It also works when you have landlubbers aboard. The nitty gritty of sail trim is very secondary once the sail area is reduced to the appropriate level and balance. Best to err on the side of over reefing always easy to let more sail out once things settle down.

So what you are saying is to reef before the screaming starts. That I will surely do.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by sagablu

I had the main in the second reef with the main sheet eased quite a bit. Yes, I was at least 20 degrees over, didn't check the inclinometer though.

I can roll in the 135, it didn't seem to help that much last time I tried unless I brought it in a lot, to the point of the shape being bad. My main question is how to trim the genny, car forward or back? How close to the spreader? All this assuming a beam reach and around 20 knots.

Anyway, thank you for taking the time to help me.

On a beam reach the sail won’t be close to the spreader. I wouldn’t bother moving the car. Set it where you have minimal twist when close hauled and live with the way it is as you head off and let out the sheet. Do you have tell-tales on your sails? I may have missed that. If not I really recommend getting some and sticking them, they help seeing what’s going on.