Don't Rely on Mast-Top Anchor Lights -- Bitter Experience

[rbyham]

We have made use of the small lawn lights from anywhere (Walmart?) But last week while in Walmart I noticed what looks like a solar driven spotlight meant to light a yard area. I now have it mounted so it lights the hole of my cabin and lower half of mast and rigging. The additional advantage is that it has a switch so it goes on not with sundown but when I am ready to turn off all lights and sleep. That is closer to about 11pm so saves about 4 hours of battery time and thus goes all night... at $6 a bit pricey compared to the small ones but light difference and switchable is worth it. I will probably end up with two of these permanently mounted so as to recharge during the day and always be ready for use...

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Like you said, it's about common sense and what is reasonable and sensible. And everyone has a responsibility to do what they can to avoid a collision, regardless of who has 'right of way' .. Sorry, couldn't resist it.

*******

OK, then in your opinion, what else should one do beyond bright lights aloft and alow and leaving the AIS on when anchored at night? Most smaller vessels can't run the radar 24/7, and at least for the small unit we have (Furuno 1715) the alarm feature isn't effective. Keeping watch is not possible in reality, and in busy areas, as I mentioned before, there are frequently boats aimed at you as they work their way through the fleet. Even if on watch, how is one supposed to determine that one of those vessels will be the one to NOT change course before striking you?

So again: what is "reasonable and sensible" in this scenario?

We've been at anchor for thousands of nights now, and I never worried about MY culpability if struck by another vessel. Should I?

Jim

If your question is to me Jim, I don't believe you can do anything else.

Firstly, have you picked a spot to anchor that won't impede any other vessels? That's a Colreg's consideration. Can you pick a spot that will make it safer regardless of the legality of where you are anchored.

Before settling down for the night to 'bed', make sure you have a look around, make sure your well lit up as many have describe here, check your AIS, check your Radar for any suspects before turning it off if you need to conserve power. Perhaps don't go to bed with loud music playing. Don't drink too much so that your judgement is affected.

That's all that can reasonably be done and I believe that's all you will reasonably be expected to do. During any investigation, the Colregs will be consulted and I believe you will have been found to have done everything reasonably possible under them.


Even if your insurance company has to sue the other insurance company because the other vessel claims you didn't have someone on watch, I think there is a pretty damn good chance it will be found to be an unreasonable expectation. Of course, that's a civil matter and we will only really know as these things are put through for trial.


But the emphasis is that the expectation is to do everything that a 'reasonable' person could do. And it would certainly be 'reasonable' to pull anchor and move the vessel, or get out of the way if a runaway or a vessel with no one on watch is heading your way.

[El Pinguino]

This is one that was/is quite well known... bit of a landmark case in its day.
Wreck Report for 'Freshfield' and 'The Lady Gwendolen', 1961 - PortCities Southampton

Blame wholly laid at the feet of the Master of the Lady Gwendoline ( and later shared with his owners when insurance was an issue).
No blame at all, zero, nil, nada, placed on Freshfield.

Freshfield was keeping a watch but didn't sound bells gongs and cymbals when collision was imminent nor did she start her engine...and she was..shock horror!!.. anchored (just) in the channel....

As I recall the owners ( The Guinness company) were unable to limit their liability as they had encouraged - indeed required - the master to maintain schedule.

[Jim Cate]

El Ping... thanks for that link, for it is an interesting thing to read. Pretty lucky no one was hurt in the wreck. I wonder if the judgement against the offending skipper would have been harsher if deaths had been involved?

Hope all is going well...

Jim

[SailRedemption]

I have the red over green at the mast top as well for the person who inquired.. I sadly don't have pictures yet. But they are two sets of 180* lights on both sides of the mast 3ish feet apart.

Sorry to hear about the collision Dockhead, hope the guy tries to help pay for it insurance or not.

I'm with Jim on this, I don't think not seeing a masthead anchor light is a legitimate excuse. I just don't get how they can be mistaken for a star...yet at least. I'm always looking to learn new things.

I'm also a satisfied Fortress FX-37 owner and it's my primary right now and works great in the silty muddy bottoms of southeast Louisiana.

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk

[HappyMdRSailor]

Originally Posted by Vasco

I Have never used my mast top anchor light. In the boats I've had I've always installed a 12v outlet in the anchor locker and hang my anchor light from my jib sheets. Of course it's an "Owl" light. The best ever made. I bought a few just to make sure I've always got one. Here's a couple with a little extension I put on them to hide the wiring.

Vasco,

Found your other key that illustrates the size better I think...

[weavis]

I use the mast light on the Isetta to stop cars from driving over me.

[HappyMdRSailor]

Originally Posted by weavis

I use the mast light on the Isetta to stop cars from driving over me.

SWEEEET!

[Fortress]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Fortress have long had that reputation, and Brian is keeping it up!

Thanks!

Everybody, of course, should have a Fortress anchor, which is without the slightest competition for a kedge. If I were investing in an anchor company, this is far and away the one I would invest in -- it totally dominates a very large niche and has the best reputation for customer service in the industry. It would be a no-brainer (although of course I would want to have a look at their financials ).

Gross thread drift, but while going down that road (anchor companies as investments)

Dockhead,

Maybe this is a bit of a gross thread drift, once again, but does your valuation of an anchor company increase if the company has been manufacturing their product in the USA at the exact same facility since 1986, and has had American Bureau of Shipping (ABS) certifications since the early 90s, and has never changed the quality of their product's materials?

Curiously,
Brian

[Vasco]

Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor

Vasco,



Found your other key that illustrates the size better I think...

The pic was taken last winter. I store the Ferrari in the winter when I'm on my yacht.

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by Vasco

The pic was taken last winter. I store the Ferrari in the winter when I'm on my yacht.

you mean you don't have a one Ferrari parked at the marina in the warmer climates and another one back home?

I have a Ferrari ON my yacht

Jeez- I just don't understand how you poverty stricken folks make it through the day

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Fortress

Dockhead,

Maybe this is a bit of a gross thread drift, once again, but does your valuation of an anchor company increase if the company has been manufacturing their product in the USA at the exact same facility since 1986, and has had American Bureau of Shipping (ABS) certifications since the early 90s, and has never changed the quality of their product's materials?

Curiously,
Brian

Hmm, I don't know. As an investor, I would be looking at value added in your production cycle, so something which is cheap and easy to make but which is highly valued in the market and commanding good prices. I suspect your product is not cheap to make and that may or may not inhibit the company's value, depending on how the product is marketed.

But otherwise, of course, all those things you mention are generally positive. Shows a serious company which has focused on the same core thing for a long time. That shows staying power -- a good thing. But can also show a risk of failure to adapt to a changing market -- a bad thing. Investors like things which grow explosively -- hence all the money in tech. A platform which can seize an opportunity and scale it up quickly is the favoritest thing of all with investors these days. Which is why there are so many pimply 24 year old centimillionaires in Silicon Valley.

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Hmm, I don't know. As an investor, I would be looking at value added in your production cycle, so something which is cheap and easy to make but which is highly valued in the market and commanding good prices. I suspect your product is not cheap to make and that may or may not inhibit the company's value, depending on how the product is marketed.

But otherwise, of course, all those things you mention are generally positive. Shows a serious company which has focused on the same core thing for a long time. That shows staying power -- a good thing. But can also show a risk of failure to adapt to a changing market -- a bad thing. Investors like things which grow explosively -- hence all the money in tech. A platform which can seize an opportunity and scale it up quickly is the favoritest thing of all with investors these days. Which is why there are so many pimply 24 year old centimillionaires in Silicon Valley.

Knowing a little about this - another factor that investors like to see is major market potential. So if you've been selling , say 10,000 anchors per year and the potential market out there is still another 50 or 60 million anchors - well opportunity is knocking.

On the other hand - if the market continues to be 10,000 anchors per year then there is limited growth potential.

[Ocean Girl]

Wow, thanks for writing such a detailed post about your experience. Sorry your boat got hit! Glad it seems like it will all pan out.
We gave a couple Luci lights, an led cigare the lighter plug anchor light, and our latest addition was a solar powered led rope lights that i have strung up along the Dodger frame. We bought the rope lights at a garden store for $20 us. It automatically turns on at dusk and has lasted 6 months so far.
Anyways, we really like the automatic solar lights in addition to our top mast. We usually have at least two lights at deck level, sometimes more. Be sure to concideration blind spots on the deck level lights.
Thanks again for posting your experience.
Erika

[RaymondR]

The problem with masthead anchor lights occurs not when you are at a distance but when you get close to the other vessel coming into an anchorage. It is difficult to judge distances from lights at night and if the light is against a backdrop of bright stars it is difficult to identify with a quick glance. I sneak into anchorages at night very slowly and carefully and whilst I have never had a collision with another boat in doing so have had a few near misses with dark colored boats with masthead anchor lights. From a practical viewpoint they are a menace in certain situations and whilst convenient ther use is not very considerate of other anchorage users.