Do I need to carry a drogue or a parachute anchor

[gezza]

We are planning to sail in a 44ft catamaran from the Med across Atlantic and then through Panama to South pacific over the next 3-4 years - a fairly well worn route. I plan to sail in the best weather and routes possible - again a fairly well understood path. So given that we expect to be sailing largely downwind and in reasonable conditions, I am seeking input on whether we should be carrying either/or a drogue or parachute anchor.
My somewhat limited understanding is that a parachute anchor on a cat of that size is very difficult to deploy, manage and recover whilst I have a concern about a drogue in a following sea with the potential to have waves breaking over the stern. Currently my inclination is not not carry either and deal with the conditions by reefing and furling appropriately but seek experienced input - thanks.

[Cwens]

Don Jordan ("Jordan series drogue") argues that what kills boats is not being hit by waves -- even in a big breaking wave the mass of moving water is relatively small -- but by the boat being picked up by a wave and slammed into the face of the next wave. He argues that a wave breaking over the stern of the boat is not nearly as destructive as a boat getting accelerated down the face of a wave into the next wave. A properly engineered drogue mitigates this risk.

I have no specific personal expertise; I'm repeating what one expert has written.

[Rumrace]

There are some real advantages to a drouge in a storm. They have to be exact to the boat I’m told. I’ve made effort to never wish I had on power or sail because is power it’s your only hope to stay afloat if you’ve lost power. Cat I don’t have a clue. The multihull crowd are pros on what keeps them sunny side up.
Some tiny piece of logic tells me to never guess what might kill someone.
I’ve had One boat with a folded canvas drouge in the aft anchor locker buried under fenders and stuff.
I never used it once just put throttles to the wall and found shelter. Demasted no power apparently a drouge increases your odds. I have a photograph from 1998 in Australia. I think 10 missing sailors 13 rescued and a couple minutes later an Australia SAR helicopter and crew die. One boat I was a fan of “ Stand Aside has been demasted and lost power the only way they made to the life raft as it and the boat were coasting on drouges. A helicopter pulled the crew off 6meter swells while Stand Aside broke up.
So yup good idea

[Breaking Waves]

Originally Posted by gezza

a 44ft catamaran from the Med across Atlantic and then through Panama to South pacific

That is a decent size boat, over a relatively unstressful route.
The odds are high that you will not need a drag device.
We used drag devices relatively frequently on high latitude passages, but I cant remember a single time in the open ocean tropics (may be forgetting something but it was sure not much).

But I will note three caveats to that:

(1) Many people go down to NZ at the end of the Pacific, and you can get real weather on that passage which could well need 'storm tactics'.

(2) Despite 'the odds being high you will not need', there is certainly some small non-zero risk, and I don't know your 'risk threshold'. Some people feel a need for gear to deal with very low probability situations fi the outcome could be very bad. That is really a personal dependant decision.

(3) a drogue stows relatively small and can be light (with Dyneema rode), and in the context of ocean crossing on a 44' boat is a relatively low cost, and could be useful if/when you go outside the tropics . . . . so the downsides to getting one are low.

[boatman61]

No I'd not bother with a drogue.. I would however do the Transat crossing from Cap Verde rather than the November Arc from the Canaries when the odds of you hitting bad weather are 75%+, further S conditions are more settled.
As for the run from the E Caribe to Colon its 1000nm downwind with the only danger if you go to close to Columbia, stay 100nm N and you'll be fine..
The S Pacific, once you close the Galapagos get down between 5 to 10 degrees S and you'll have steady winds from the SE around F5 with occasional short squalls gusting to F7 once past the Marqueasas, easily handled by furling the jib..
This is assuming you stay 'in season'..

[Marathon1150]

We bought a Jordan series drogue primarily for the leg from Vancouver to Mexico on our 11.5m monohull. Wind and waves off of northern California can be significant and they were. We had 40 to 50 Kts of wind and 5 to 7m waves for about 48 hours. We did not deploy the drogue because we didn't think that we needed to - the boat was under control and even though surfing down the wave fronts was challenging we just kept going. I have told this to other people with a lot more ocean experience than me, who were surprised that we did not use the drogue.

We bought it from someone who bought it from someone else who did use it in the same spot that we chose not to. One of the two crew members on that boat got off in San Francisco and would not get back on.

We crossed to French Polynesia but never encountered any weather that might need a drogue. I do agree with the comment above that it might come in handy if you choose to go on to NZ.

[wingssail]

Before we departed on our "World Cruise" I asked a sailmaker friend, who had just been through the deadly Fastnet Race on a sistership to my own boat, "Keith, You made it through Fastnet, you know my boat, should I go with a drogue?"

He was surprised and happy at my question, since we hadn't had a lot of friendly conversation before. He said, "Well Fred, you know I think that going fast is the best way to avoid problems, but that takes good steering. We had five helmsmen onboard La Pantera, you will have only two on Wings. That makes it a different problem. How long can you steer?"

I thought about it, he was right, but I didn't want to spend the money for a drogue, and I also didn't want to store it aboard so I didn't get one.

So we departed on our world cruise without a drogue or a sea anchor. In eighteen years we never needed either. I had a plan in my mind on how to rig some sort of a drag device, but never enacted it. We sailed through a few really bad storms. Storms in which nearby boats were lost, including friends of ours. But we never felt the need for a drogue, including one place mentioned above, off the coast of Columbia, where we had very strong winds and big, BIG, waves, but our wind vane steered perfectly and we had a nice (FAST) ride. So we don't feel that it was a mistake to forego a drogue. If I was departing today on a world cruise, I would not bother with a drogue.

So if you have a boat with an excellent rudder and a fast hull, like I have, maybe you can forgo a drogue, but you do have to decide. We can't do it for you.

[goboatingnow]

I fully agree with the last poster.

You’re best friend in a storm is a big balanced spade rudder. Keep the boat moving and keep control.

I would never bother with a parachute anchor. It’s a system out of the past

I carry a small drogue and in the three cases I needed to slow the boat I just used 300 feet of warp streamed in a U behind , once this was on a 45 footer in a F10-11 mid Atlantic. I have never therefore taken the drogue out of its bag as my concern is it would retard the boat too much.

The warp alone stabilised the speed and helped keep the stern into the wave. So much so that for a few hours we could reengage the AP and give the drivers a rest.

[Franziska]

The problem with a parachute anchor is that you need a lot of searoom when you deploy it and that you need to decide fairly early to deploy it in a storm, preferably while you are still facing the bow into the waves.
If you decide for deploying a sea anchor you can just wait things out while the storm passes. Still, you have very little influence on the direction you are moving along.

Say you decide at first to run from the storm, the situation gets worse and you decide you need the sea anchor.
Now the waves make it hard to turn around 180 degrees, drop your sea anchor over board in lee and wait until the 100m/300ft rode has paid out while drifting backwards.
All the while your rudder keeps backing around when each wave moves you back and the rudder gets the waterstream right onto its trailing edge. Big risk for getting broadside to the waves.

The Jordan series drogue seems more logic to me.
Storm builds, you decide to run from it. Storm gets worse, you risk careening down the face of the wave into the next one.
With the Jordan style drogue you can deploy it just enough to slow the boat for not going to fast.By not deploying to many cones you can also likely avoid getting pooped from behind.
Disadvantage of a drogue of the stern is that it still requires active steering which might not be easy short handed after many hours.
You maintain control of your direction to some degree.

Warps can achieve the same to some extent, but on a 44ft cat they may not be enough..

[Tin Tin]

If you get a drogue and a storm jib, you will not experience conditions that require either, but if you don't buy them, sure as eggs you will wish you had. It's like insurance, paid all that money over the years and never had a claim.

[boatman61]

Does no one read posts...???
Its a 44ft Catamaran guys.. not a mono with big spade rudder..

[boatman61]

Read this... pay particular attention to 'Parking your Catamaran'...
https://www.sailmagazine.com/multihu...ng-a-catamaran

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Read this... pay particular attention to 'Parking your Catamaran'...

https://www.sailmagazine.com/multihu...ng-a-catamaran

Yup. No mention of parachute anchors too. So consistent with the last set of posts. He does mention streaming warps.

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Yup. No mention of parachute anchors too. So consistent with the last set of posts. He does mention streaming warps.

The reason I mentioned parachute anchors too was because they used to be a fairly common thing to have on multihulls.

So, absolutely another option for the thread starter to look into.
He is on a multi.

Also a big chapter on drag devices including parachute anchors in Chris Whites classic book "The cruising multihull".

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Franziska

The reason I mentioned parachute anchors too was because they used to be a fairly common thing to have on multihulls.

So, absolutely another option for the thread starter to look into.
He is on a multi.

Also a big chapter on drag devices including parachute anchors in Chris Whites classic book "The cruising multihull".

I think they were a “fad” experience now has suggested active dynamic sailing in rough weather is better. Hence they have faded into history. Small drogues are more in vogue