Do I need to carry a drogue or a parachute anchor

[Bali43Cat]

You don't mention (or at least I didn't see) which 44' Catamaran but speaking from our crossing from the Med to the Caribbean last year in our Bali 4.8 - we experimented with some "drag inducing devices" even without any bad weather over the whole 6 week voyage.

In our case, once we turned downwind from Cape Verde I found it difficult to balance the boat out for dead downwind sailing which is what you may very well find yourself doing for days/weeks on end. Without a symmetrical spinnaker we ran wing/wing with the big square top single reefed out to port and the small jib out to the other. This allowed for dreamy-quiet smooth conditions but the autopilot was constantly fighting the large imbalance of the big main vs. the small jib - particularly as the boat would surf down the wave which would unload the main, then climb back up the next one causing a fully loaded main - lather, rinse, repeat with the Raymarine autopilot rather expertly handling it all with amazing grace.

With so many days to ponder things - you start thinking about all the little stuff and in my case I'm wondering about that tiny French-Made beer-can sized hydraulic pump whizzing away non-stop and really dreading the thought of it going out...anything to give it a hand seemed appropriate. So we dug out a "very" undersized drogue chute that I'm not really even sure where it came from - and threw that off tied to the stern cleat same side as the main. I have to say even being undersized it created noticeable relief to the surging hull as we slid down each wave. The autopilot seemed to have about a 2-3 degree less correction on every cycle - and the boat speed barely even knew any difference.

Needless to say the poor undersized drogue shredded up in just a few hours but with some crafty sewing we had it back working again for another day or so until we found the backup halyard (brand new stuff) we were using for rode snapped! Looking around the boat for a substitute I fashioned a 4 pronged dingy anchor with a web of the aforementioned halyard to make sorta a mini-umbrella which created a helluva lot of drag for a small device. This shackled to a couple of 3/4" dock lines really fit the bill and the boat sailed smoothly again for the remainder of the downwind sail.

As others have noted previously - if you take the Cape Verde route you'll be rewarded not only with a fabulous stay over on some very interesting islands - but the weather is pretty phenomenal for the remainder of the crossing whereas the rumb line can be sketchy from the north at times. If you do the downwind run - certainly I would recommend a symmetrical spinnaker - but in lieu the wing/wing works - albeit even better with our little balancing device!

[Sailor Sailor]

From the Appendix to John Rousmaniere’s excellent book After the Storm, he offers the following:

“There are four commonly accepted techniques, or storm tactics, for getting through a storm: heave-to, lie to a sea anchor, lie ahull, or run with it. None is perfect or easy to implement…

Although all four tactics have long histories of success, there is no one best tactic for all conditions and vessels. Unfortunately, discussions of storm tactics often stray into bitter, foolish debates about the “perfect” tactic. In their quest for absolute answers, many people become purists, insisting on one tactic and damning the others. But anyone who has been out in a bad gale knows there is nothing pure or absolute about a storm at sea except its danger.”

In this book, John Rousmaniere (who survived the Fastnet Race on a crewed Nautor Swan) recommends Godforsaken Sea by Derek Lundy, another excellent book. Four boats were lost during the 1996 Vendee Globe, included more than one of the Group Finot lightweight, wide-stern, French design boats favored by some, that ran downwind before broaching or pitchpoling into disaster.

You should consider being prepared to employ any of the four tactics with flexibility. Reading books about storm tactics reveals valuable information about the conditions that best warrant each of the four tactics. While there are some valuable, experienced opinions on listservs, anyone who has been here long enough realizes there are also some clearly erroneous or biased opinions.

To the OP, as far as your intended route is concerned, Jimmy Cornell’s World Cruising Routes gives excellent advice on the best waypoints and seasons for your intended passage. Read, read, read.

[Nicholson58]

Read Pardey’s Book on storm tactics.

Your boat is probably too big to use one.

Consider that modern boats, cats do not have sufficient strong points to anchor one.

If you were to deploy one you would likely never get it back

You could easily get injured deploying it.

[FuzzyFeat]

Deployed a self constructed Jordan series drogue on a voyage from North Carolina to the Virgins.

Storm conditions.

Searunner 37

Two days in winds over 40 knts.

Minimum drift.
Maximum comfort.
Enjoyed the storm.

I would not put out to sea without one.

PM if you would like further info.

[Bill Gibbs]

Your question uses the word "need" which has a very subjective definition. I brought my 47 cat from Tortola to Ensenada thru the canal, and bought a Jordon drogue just to be safe. Never used it. But when I lost both rudders halfway between Guadalupe & Bonaire, it was the next thing we were going to try. Instead we ended up motor steering for 150nm to get within towing range. It's always nice to have a plan B, plan C, etc.

[Cynara]

How well do catamarans heave-to. That is what we did

[Jweyndling]

I have experienced 45knots gusting over 50 heading from Norfolk to BVIs in a 44’ catamaran. We very happily surfed down the 25-30’ waves with just half a jib out and the autopilot doing all the steering. I think we topped out at 22Knots but we never came close to burying a bow. We were even able to eat dinner at the cockpit table without the plates sliding off

[earthbm]

I happen to have a Jordan Series Drogue correctly sized for the OP’s cat. In Rhode Island. Shipping cost is a bitch though

Series Drogue Chute (72+72=144 cones) $900
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...d.php?t=263322

[DumnMad]

Originally Posted by Franziska

In your short handed or even solo they still have their place.

Parachute Anchors are for keeping fishing boats from getting blown off their favourite spots.

[carstenb]

We sail a mono, and I'll readily admit that I don't know much about sailing cats - but we have a jordan series on board which we have never used.

We feel it is better to have one and never needed it than to not have one and need it.

There is a post from someone here on CF trying to sell a jordan - see this link

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...-a-263322.html

$900 is cheap. You can always sell it afterwards for at least that

Whilst you probably will not run into nasty weather on you trip - you most certainly can run into really nasty stuff if you go to New Zealand.

[Glenn.Brooks]

Very much enjoying this thread. One thing most people haven’t addressed is how far astern to pay out the sea anchor/drouge/warp. In the Hitchcock Era two to three wave periods were considered minimum distance to pay out warps astern- and they were often large diameter 3/4”. -1” diameter heavy weight (soggy) manilla line. So 300’ plus out behind the stern (600-1000’ overall). That’s an awful lot of line to carry in a small boat.

I assume sea anchors have a similar requirement - three + wave periods??

Of course this also depends on sea state - giving rise to an endless set of possibilities and circumstances….

Very much like to read peoples experiences in this regard.

[fxykty]

The OP is on a medium sized cat and cats completely differently from monohulls - there’s no point reading the Pardeys for their experience in small heavy monohulls.

Regarding a sea anchor (aka parachute anchor) vs a series drogue, it seems to be six of one, half dozen of the other. Both can work for catamarans.

As some have pointed out, the most difficult part of using a sea anchor is to make the change from running with the storm to turning 150*-180* into it, then drifting back while the sea anchor deploys. OTOH, if you are fore reaching and decide to deploy at least you don’t have to make much of a turn. Once deployed, the handling of the boat and sea anchor is completely passive - no steering required. You’ll want a sea anchor that can be easily deployed from your cockpit.

A Jordan Series Drogue is a downwind near-equivalent of a sea anchor - a properly sized JSD will slow the boat to 2-3 knots boat speed and is also a passive solution. With the buoyant sterns of cats I haven’t heard of breaking waves filling cockpits and breaking salon doors, but you may want to consider your vulnerability if you have large areas of solar panels out back and/or a dinghy in davits. Retrieving can be done via cockpit winches or the anchor windlass and getting started is easier if you have a retrieval line rigged to the bridle-rode connection. Each bridle leg could be carrying the entire displacement of your boat in a big breaking wave, so ensure your anchor points are solid. We had custom chainplates built for each stern and from there lead a support line around the bows and back.

A JSD should NEVER be used partially deployed to enable more speed - it simply won’t work that way. Read the reports linked earlier to find out why. This is boat threateningly dangerous!

If you prefer active solutions then a gale rider or other single drogue can work. These will slow down your peak speeds and may be enough to prevent high speed surfs into the trough of the wave ahead. These kind of drogues can be used to help steering or to steer the boat.

Dragging warps has less documented success as they just don’t provide enough drag to prevent uncontrolled surfing. Adding anchors or car tires to warps can help keep them in the water. That starts to be a lot of bulky gear you may not otherwise have.

The problem with active solutions is what happens when you get tired? Storms at sea are typically not short-lived affairs.

[Breaking Waves]

Originally Posted by Glenn.Brooks

V In the Hitchcock Era two to three wave periods were considered minimum distance to pay out warps astern- So 300’ plus out behind the stern (600-1000’ overall).

I assume sea anchors have a similar requirement - three + wave periods?.

You are underestimating the typical wavelength in a fully developed ocean storm. They will often be >200m. Almost no one actually puts out three wavelengths of rode.

[Jim Cate]

Evans Starzinger (Breaking Waves here on CF) reported using a single point drogue on a long, long warp in t he Southern Ocean. IIRC it was 600 feet or so, and worked much better than it did closer in. He might respond with more info if alerted to this thread.

Jim
^^^^^
Hah! There he is now!!

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by carstenb

...Whilst you probably will not run into nasty weather on you trip - you most certainly can run into really nasty stuff if you go to New Zealand.

We went to New Zealand, and two years later left again. Both times we encountered nasty stuff. The passage to New Zealand was worse, much worse. Five boats in our group were lost and four lives lost. We got through both times without significant damage although some rigging parted on the outbound trip. The mast stayed up.

But the conditions were really bad.

We never, however, seriously entertained the thought of setting either a Sea-Anchor or a Drogue. We actively sailed for three days. The boat mostly tended to itself on a close hauled course with a triple reefed main and steering by the wind vane. Heading into the waves seemed better than running before them or hanging on a sea anchor. We took the waves on our bow and we stood watch. It was rough.

After arriving in New Zealand we heard about the carnage. Boats were flipped by the big waves or the waves washed over them and people were torn away from their tether points by the large waves. One boat was driven ashore and a crew member was lost. Others abandoned.

It's hard to see that a drogue would have prevented any of this. But maybe.