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Old 17-01-2012, 18:04   #271
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

The last people alive did not get off the ship until 13 hours after the accident.
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Old 17-01-2012, 18:05   #272
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Originally Posted by Astrid View Post
If I remember correctly, large vessels like this one have their courses programmed into a guidance computer system and the ship is nominally steering itself with a bridge watch to oversee the system, monitor AIS and the radars. If the ship diviates from the programmed course an alarm goes off. The captain and officer of the watch can override the system if need be, such as taking evasive action or adopting a safe course when meeting another ship. Only when entering or leaving a port is the ship usually under direct human control.
Yes, they have electronic charts that integrate with the autopilot to follow a track line. Many of the boats discussed in this forum can do the same.
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Old 17-01-2012, 18:10   #273
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Originally Posted by Cotemar
The last people alive did not get off the ship until 13 hours after the accident.
Yes but the vast majority were removed early on.
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Old 17-01-2012, 18:18   #274
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Originally Posted by SabreKai View Post
Current article from Spiegle, the German news magazine with a good set of photos from the divers.

Captain Under Fire: Hopes Fade for Finding Survivors in Wrecked Ship - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

Seems the hull is starting to crush and break up on the stbd side. Dewatering will be a royal pain in the backside as there are huge windows that are under water. All those balconies with sliding glass doors will have to be sealed.

I'll wager she is scrapped. She may be righted and pulled off but I suspect she will be scrapped.
In addition, if she were salvaged and restored, it would be pretty difficult to find people who want to go for a cruise on that particular ship. There is not much hope for future revenues
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Old 17-01-2012, 18:19   #275
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Originally Posted by Eleebana View Post
You've got to love armchair opinions, particularly those who would have done it a whole lot better with 20/20 hindsight.

I am amazed that the casualties have been so few.
Me too!

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I read something along the way about a bow anchor being used to turn the ship so that the compromised side was *up* when she grounded... Don't know what you all think of that as a tactic.
I did ask what folks thought... Armchair quarterbacks perhaps, but a pretty invested, experienced group. It's an interesting puzzle.

In hind sight it CLEARLY would have been a good idea to start transferring passengers and deploying the lifeboats as soon as they hit the rocks. Instead the officers played hide the weenie for as couple of hours, and then it was too late to do it the smart way. Although given the strategy that lead to their predicament I am not surprised at the lack of judgement they showed in the crisis....

I considered the logistics of exiting the Concordia via the sea and then swimming the short (but VERY cold) stretch to shore. I am more than confident I could do it, and I think some of the family could with not to much trouble, but I would be less than confident about Himself or the Daughter... And you would have had to have done it after making your way down a pretty precarious descent to get near the water AND the land... Swimming around the ship seems like a recipe for hypothermia. The short route across would be the only way I would have wanted to go. There were plenty of ropes hanging off the deployed lifeboats... Tie up some aussies and rappel down maybe?

Sitting in a corridor, waiting, would NOT be my style...
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Old 17-01-2012, 18:32   #276
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Me too!

I did ask what folks thought... Armchair quarterbacks perhaps, but a pretty invested, experienced group. It's an interesting puzzle.

In hind sight it CLEARLY would have been a good idea to start transferring passengers and deploying the lifeboats as soon as they hit the rocks. Instead the officers played hide the weenie for as couple of hours, and then it was too late to do it the smart way. Although given the strategy that lead to their predicament I am not surprised at the lack of judgement they showed in the crisis....

I considered the logistics of exiting the Concordia via the sea and then swimming the short (but VERY cold) stretch to shore. I am more than confident I could do it, and I think some of the family could with not to much trouble, but I would be less than confident about Himself or the Daughter... And you would have had to have done it after making your way down a pretty precarious descent to get near the water AND the land... Swimming around the ship seems like a recipe for hypothermia. The short route across would be the only way I would have wanted to go. There were plenty of ropes hanging off the deployed lifeboats... Tie up some aussies and rappel down maybe?

Sitting in a corridor, waiting, would NOT be my style...
I see so you'd be one of those people that pushed past ignored crew instructions and jumped over the side ( two reported deaths that way) no doubt when interviewed by the media you'd claim things were chaotic and the crew were ineffectual. !!

Not to mention jumping into the sea from 10-20 metres up. Have you done that sure you have. ( then there's the problem with your flimsy evening dress and hypothermia , but hey you're macho girl.

The vast majority of the passengers queued and got into the lifeboats. Only near the end with the listing did it become tricky. Many were also lifted off by chopper later in the rescue. Also many were removed by local fishing and other craft.
The best way is by the book

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Old 17-01-2012, 18:34   #277
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astrid View Post
If I remember correctly, large vessels like this one have their courses programmed into a guidance computer system and the ship is nominally steering itself with a bridge watch to oversee the system, monitor AIS and the radars. If the ship diviates from the programmed course an alarm goes off. The captain and officer of the watch can override the system if need be, such as taking evasive action or adopting a safe course when meeting another ship. Only when entering or leaving a port is the ship usually under direct human control.

Like David said, a lot of our small boats have a similar system.
At work, I actively discourage the use of integrated electronic chart/steering. I have noticed a tendency for ships to "follow the red line " at all costs. At least if the auto pilot is used as a standalone, the OOW actively has to monitor the route, and is maybe not so concerned as to keeping within inches of the plotted track.
As for alarms, you can set your cross track alarm to whatever you want, same as with AIS, ARPA, depth alarms etc. I've joined ships to find CPA alarms set at 0.1m and 3 minutes, so as to avoid annoying the OOW with alarms. I tell my OOW's if they dont like the alarms, its time to find another ship.
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Old 17-01-2012, 18:51   #278
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

There as been many rumors as to the chain of events. From my own Internet surfing, so take with a grain of salt, it goes something like this.....

Captain pulled this stunt to impress family members of a crew/staff on the ship, his family lives on the island. Think it was the Head Waiter??

This crew/staff member of the ship told family members to expect the fly-by around 9:30 PM local time.

One of his island family members posted to Facebook about the upcoming fly-by.

Captain had the con at time of impact.

All the above could be complete BS, but is what I dug up. As to the actions of the captain afterward, I'll play Monday night quarterback too, and speculate my rear off. It is a cruise ship folks, and I will bet most all on this forum know just how tender by design a cruise ship is for passenger comfort. Now you just holed the hull at speed in a vessel that has less positive stability than a RORO, what do you do? Perhaps the only smart thing this captain did all night, get to shallow water. I have no idea why he waited something like 58 minutes before transmitting the first mayday, maybe someone could clue me in on that. And what completely flies in the face of common sense, why did he instruct his crew not to abandon ship, in a ship that has minimal positive stability even in an un-compromised state. With sea egress, nothing will list and capsize faster than a cruise ship (Sorry about that Sara). Of course we are all in agreement that the captain and 1st bailing out in a life boat while hundreds were still on board was pathetic. And worse (and this is the only thing I'm sure of because I listened to the VHF recording from the port commandant to the captain), the captain ignoring a direct command from port authorities to return to his ship and direct evacuation.
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Old 17-01-2012, 19:05   #279
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

The Captain of the Titanic died in the end never leaving his ships post.

Captain Coward (Francesco Schettino, the captain of the Costa Concordia) sat in a lifeboat watching his crew shuttle passengers off the doomed ship for hours with no idea what was really happening.
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Old 17-01-2012, 19:11   #280
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

Was he in the lifeboat that long or did he come ashore for a bite to eat?
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Old 17-01-2012, 19:17   #281
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

I had some damage control training, and on the average, for a ship that size, it takes at least half an hour to sound the ship, assess the damage and the options and begin damage control proceedures. One starts with the obvious in a case like the Costa Concordia by closing water tight doors and engaging pumps, but it may be some while before the situation becomes clear enough to formulate a plan to keep the ship afloat or, if that seems impossible, to order abandon ship. Still, the captain of the Concordia certainly appears to have taken his time; I should think that a quick message that the ship had touched ground and suffered damage might have been a wise move to alert authorities ashore and allow them to begin mustering help--then as the situation became more clear he could have issued the SOS and his plan to beach the ship in shallow waters to facilitate abandoning ship and rescuing the passengers and crew. Of course, it is possible that he did just that, but I do not know one way or the other.
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Old 17-01-2012, 19:23   #282
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

Quote:
Originally Posted by deckofficer View Post
There as been many rumors as to the chain of events. From my own Internet surfing, so take with a grain of salt, it goes something like this.....

Captain pulled this stunt to impress family members of a crew/staff on the ship, his family lives on the island. Think it was the Head Waiter??

This crew/staff member of the ship told family members to expect the fly-by around 9:30 PM local time.

One of his island family members posted to Facebook about the upcoming fly-by.

Captain had the con at time of impact.

All the above could be complete BS, but is what I dug up. As to the actions of the captain afterward, I'll play Monday night quarterback too, and speculate my rear off. It is a cruise ship folks, and I will bet most all on this forum know just how tender by design a cruise ship is for passenger comfort. Now you just holed the hull at speed in a vessel that has less positive stability than a RORO, what do you do? Perhaps the only smart thing this captain did all night, get to shallow water. I have no idea why he waited something like 58 minutes before transmitting the first mayday, maybe someone could clue me in on that. And what completely flies in the face of common sense, why did he instruct his crew not to abandon ship, in a ship that has minimal positive stability even in an un-compromised state. With sea egress, nothing will list and capsize faster than a cruise ship (Sorry about that Sara). Of course we are all in agreement that the captain and 1st bailing out in a life boat while hundreds were still on board was pathetic. And worse (and this is the only thing I'm sure of because I listened to the VHF recording from the port commandant to the captain), the captain ignoring a direct command from port authorities to return to his ship and direct evacuation.
it is quite possable he was in a state of shock,and unable to make rational decisions..............after an f up of that magnitude
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Old 17-01-2012, 19:29   #283
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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it is quite possable he was in a state of shock,and unable to make rational decisions..............after an f up of that magnitude
Well, aah, umm, jeez your right, I just put myself in his Italian loafers, and it induced a state of shock.
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Old 17-01-2012, 19:32   #284
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

As to not heading for the port immediately, it is possible that, as the situation became clearer, he may not have wanted risking blocking the harbour or a good deal of it should the ship sink at or just inside the entrance. With other vessels possibly in the harbour attempting to enter with a damaged and possibly sinking ship might have reduced his options.

Concerning being in a state of shock, yes that is a distinct possibility. Even Captain Smith of the Titanic appears to have gone into a state of shock once it was confirmed the ship was going to founder.
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Old 17-01-2012, 19:33   #285
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re: Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS

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Well, aah, umm, jeez your right, I just put myself in his Italian loafers, and it induced a state of shock.
were they Gucci
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