About NOT power setting the anchor

[Talk Story]

I have nothing to add other than this is one of the most informative threads I've read in a while. Lots of good information. Thanks to all!

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

I sort of agree that the statements contradict. Doing the math on your claims (30-years on boats, over half at-anchor), you have something approaching 6000 flawless nights at-anchor.

Why would you even bother with an anchor alarm let alone worry about bearings if you didn't set one?

I think your logic is flawed. It's equivalent to saying since you power-set your anchor - you don't need to bother with an anchor alarm, or safety bearings.

[boatman61]

Picture 1.. 27ft Montague Whaler..
Picture 2 & 3.. 32ft RN cutter..

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Picture 1.. 27ft Montague Whaler..
Picture 2 & 3.. 32ft RN cutter..

Is that a dinosaur I see peeking out from below the wharf?

Nice pics .

[Lodesman]

I think some here might assume Chotu is just dumping his chain in a pile - from my read of it, he pays the chain out; perhaps he can confirm this?

My technique depends on whether or not I can see the bottom or am confident with the reported bottom. Typical in the Bahamas - having dropped anchor in the centre of a clean patch of hard sand - using wind, current or engine (reverse a bit above idle) to pay out the chain, at about 50' (roughly 3:1) put the brake on and engine in neutral (if used) and momentum to "set" the anchor, then back to paying out the rest of the chain. If bottom not visible or of dubious quality, then I'd do the same except after "setting" by momentum, I'd cleat off the chain and give it some reverse thrust - maybe up to 1/3 throttle (less if it was mud). Despite having 120Hp to play with, I can't produce enough "pull" to dig the anchor completely into a good bottom, although I could probably overwhelm it, in a marginal bottom. So I generally see little use in what I understood "power-setting" to be. My thought process is to have the tip dug in enough that it will either continue to dig in to maximal "pull" if wind/current keep up, or it will turn around without fouling itself should wind/current change drastically. I also use a goodly amount of chain. I don't like the simplistic X times depth rode calculations - you get too little in shallow water, and too much in deep water. I've always used a variation of the navy's formula, but quite like Boatie's 3xLOA + water depth, as it gives similar figures with less complicated math(s).

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Is that a dinosaur I see peeking out from below the wharf?

Nice pics .

Naah.. its the guy who taught me how to anchor.. the dinosaur took the picture..

[Mr B]

The only thing I have when anchoring is the depth Im in,
The water is cloudy and you cant see the bottom,
What the bottom is like, Who knows,
I put my chain on the deck, Approximate for the depth and add 20 feet,
Then I lower my anchor to the bottom, Let it all pull out while feeding the extra chain till its all out,
Depth plus 20 feet,
Cleat it off and them power set it with the motor,
Once it sets, The boat stops,
Then I drag it around in circles till Im sure its solidly set,
It takes some getting it out again as it really digs in,
But the boat does all the hard work getting it out again,

Last time I was out, I dragged my anchor around in circles and it just wouldnt set,
I even drove the boat forwards over the anchor, Nope, This isnt working,
I dragged it out again and it had some sort of growth on the point, It looked like a big donut stuck on the point,
No wonder it wouldnt set with this thing stuck on it,

I put it back in the water and it held this time, Even with the tide change,
We have a tide here that can run at 8 knots,
So I plant my anchor securely, Using the motor,

Once I am sure the anchor is solid, I usually pay out all my anchor chain,
all 100 feet of it, Or less if Im in a cove that has rock walls, Etc, close by,
Currently using my small anchor, 24 Kgs, as Its easier to pull up by hand,

But my Girl has bought me a Windlass as she said she cant pull either anchor up by hand,
So with that operating, I will use the 40 Kg anchor all the time,

Cheers, Brian,

[charliehows]

depends on ones local knowledge - eg. most of Sydney harbour is soft mud, power setting is unnecessary but; I've lost count of the number of people who find their anchor winch unable to budge their anchor after more than 4 days on the same spot - you need to pull your anchor once every few days if you dont want it to work its way down into the mud.

If you dont have local knowledge, power setting is probably a good idea. Anchoring is a black art, there is no 'formula' for all circumstances.

[desodave]

Originally Posted by charliehows

depends on ones local knowledge - eg. most of Sydney harbour is soft mud, power setting is unnecessary but; I've lost count of the number of people who find their anchor winch unable to budge their anchor after more than 4 days on the same spot - you need to pull your anchor once every few days if you dont want it to work its way down into the mud.

If you dont have local knowledge, power setting is probably a good idea. Anchoring is a black art, there is no 'formula' for all circumstances.

This really reflects my experience after buying a new 20kg Rocna to replace the undersized delta anchor that came with our boat. Most of my anchoring is in familiar, well protected anchorages where you can get a bit of wind at times but very little wave action. It was quite a shock when I went to retrieve it for the first time when the windlass kept stalling, and then required some boat repositioning to break it out. I use a lot less power in those anchorages now - I just want to know that it is hooked.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by charliehows

depends on ones local knowledge - eg. most of Sydney harbour is soft mud, power setting is unnecessary but; I've lost count of the number of people who find their anchor winch unable to budge their anchor after more than 4 days on the same spot - you need to pull your anchor once every few days if you dont want it to work its way down into the mud.

If you dont have local knowledge, power setting is probably a good idea. Anchoring is a black art, there is no 'formula' for all circumstances.

There are proper ways to retrieve an anchor so well set just takes time .
Hoist as well as you can and let the incoming tide do the heavy lifting.
I don't " powerset" my anchors but have had to let the tide pull it up for me more times than I can recall.

[Benz]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

Okay, as the offending poster..... Here's what I do: I lower my anchor while going slowly in reverse laying rode to about 4:1 downwind. I gently power set the anchor, then lay out a bit more rode to 5:1.

I do it because every credible source I can find including the anchor manufacturers themselves, and noted authorities on seamanship practices such as BoatUS, Chapman's, Dashew, Practical Sailor, and others universally recommend a gentle power-set.

I don't do it by tossing rode overboard without a power set because the only advocates for this method I can find are one-off internet sources who provide zero source data or citation except being a self proclaimed anchor expert with 1000's of nights at anchor who have simply always done it that way without ill consequence. Heck, for all I know, these advocates could be occupants of the derelict boats I see dotting the waterways I traverse. They certainly spend 1000s of nights at anchor and they ride out a storm or two so I can see how they'd develop a sense of confidence - all is good......until its not.

So I have to ask myself: is it prudent to listen to the unanimous guidance of experts? Or listen to a group of people whom I know nothing about, no idea where they anchor, who defy the experts with difficult-to-follow logic, and may have simply gotten lucky? If an anchor is not going to set, would I like that knowledge immediately, or would I rather wait until 0200 with strong winds?

So I power-set an anchor. And that's why.

Everyone happy? Nicer guidance than, say, Chotu's recent post that only people who do not power set are qualified to comment on it, which seems a bit nihilist to me.

Peter

I admire your persistence in taking every segue to strongly state your opinion again. For the record, I wasn't singling you out as guilty in the post you replied to, I was just saying that reasons for actions are a great help in general to all discussions.
I don't think anyone here is saying that backing down on the anchor is bad in itself; it's just that many of us have found it unnecessary. The reason the experts you cited advocate it is the same reason there is such advocacy for life jackets--they certainly can save your butt if you fall overboard, and no one wants to be blamed for a death by drowning because they told people not to wear one. But many and many of us have no use nor patience for lifejackets, and only carry them under threat of force. The two unneccesary things--powersetting and lifejacket wearing--make their proponents sound prudent, and they get to dodge some liability.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Benz

I admire your persistence in taking every segue to strongly state your opinion again. For the record, I wasn't singling you out as guilty in the post you replied to, I was just saying that reasons for actions are a great help in general to all discussions.
I don't think anyone here is saying that backing down on the anchor is bad in itself; it's just that many of us have found it unnecessary. The reason the experts you cited advocate it is the same reason there is such advocacy for life jackets--they certainly can save your butt if you fall overboard, and no one wants to be blamed for a death by drowning because they told people not to wear one. But many and many of us have no use nor patience for lifejackets, and only carry them under threat of force. The two unneccesary things--powersetting and lifejacket wearing--make their proponents sound prudent, and they get to dodge some liability.

Life jackets are a different matter i always wear my offshore auto inflate life jacket with built in harness. I have 1 rule on my boat and thats it .
I solo all the time and remember this " you fall off the boat you die."

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Life jackets are a different matter i always wear my offshore auto inflate life jacket with built in harness. I have 1 rule on my boat and thats it .
I solo all the time and remember this " you fall off the boat you die."

If your solo and fall off the boat wearing a life jacket it just just takes longer to die..
Buy a PLB and stay close to shore..

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by boatman61

If your solo and fall off the boat wearing a life jacket it just just takes longer to die..
Buy a PLB and stay close to shore..

Harness to clip into my jack lines. Hard to stay close to shore when going to Hawaii.

[mvweebles]

QUOTE: "The two unneccesary things--powersetting and lifejacket wearing--make their proponents sound prudent"

You're kidding, right? Unnecessary?

Yikes!

Peter