A broach to remember; family fun in spring wind

[basssears]

As noted above, the bottom end of Lummi is often one of the windiest spots in the San Juans, also the bay east of Eliza there. I always try (not always successful) to anticipate increased winds there and an extra reef before I get to that spot.


Have seen it blowing 20+ at the south end of Lummi while ~5-6 on the bay and glassy calm in the Rosario.

[MartinR]

Yes, islands affect the wind, sometimes in dramatic fashion. Maybe you got caught out in a gust with a shift of wind direction, overcompensated and stalled the rudder. Then all bets are off. Waves this size should not make any difference.

There is nothing wrong with a broach now and then and sometimes you just can not avoid them unless you sail extremely cautious, but where is the fun in that? And, recovery from a broach is not a big deal.

[mowerandy]

Best thing to do I think is to dump the sheets, main first, since that is probably doing most of the damage in terms of forcing a broach.
In particularly difficult conditions, as often found in the lee of higher islands and cliffs due to katabatic compression and lee-turbulence you may need to sail with one hand on the mainsheet and the other on the helm, even fully reefed, since it is possible to see 40 knot bullets when the prevailing breeze is only 25, for example.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by MartinR

. . . And, recovery from a broach is not a big deal.

Well, that depends very much on the broach. With a big kite up? Or in massive breaking waves?

[JDWS]

Originally Posted by billknny

JDWS,



Every broach is one to remember, and hopefully to learn from.



I don't have much to say about a C310, but I have a lot of experience on C320s in famously windy San Francisco bay. I can say that those boats really, really don't like a big mainsail in strong winds. Especially downwind, they would get very squirrelly in winds of >20 knots even single reefed. They were much better behaved double reefed, or even sailed jib only.

Thanks for all the comments folks! Billkenny, your comments are very helpful. We were out most of the week and spent many hours trying various sail combinations in a huge variety of winds ( though this week we never saw it hit 30kt again). The Catalina definitely doesn’t love too much main. We found we could get a lot of speed out of jib alone in many cases with wind abaft

[JDWS]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Another key to avoiding a broach (in the case of multihulls, a capsize) is to bear off early enough. NOT when the boat is leaning way over, but head down when it first becomes apparent there is a gust coming (before full force). You have to get the nose down BEFORE the gust hits, not after. With a multi, you would be bottoms-up by then.


Another factor that catches people by surprise is the effect of the bow digging in as you turn. The bow acts like a rudder forward, causing a turn to windward and overpowering the rudder. In confused seas, this can even catch experienced helmsman, if they fail to anticipate hitting the back of a wave (a high speed boat problem).



As others have said, once the dynamics have begun (excessive heal in the case of a mono, bow dug in in the case of a multi) and the rudder begins to stall, you lose more than 50% of your lift, and even more with lean. Instant release of ALL sheets is probably the only useful action. You have to ease up on the rudder until you have flow again. it isn't what you want to do, but you must.


It's all about anticipation and getting the head down early. Also, reefing the main MORE than the jib really helps with balance off the wind.


If you are sailing with more sail up that you can carry to weather, you need to think like a dinghy sailor. Balance and anticipation.

This makes sense, thanks. Back when I was racing dinghys (pushing the limits and swimming a lot) that’s exactly what I would have needed to do. Working on scaling up to apply he lessons in the bigger boat

[JDWS]

Originally Posted by basssears

As noted above, the bottom end of Lummi is often one of the windiest spots in the San Juans, also the bay east of Eliza there. I always try (not always successful) to anticipate increased winds there and an extra reef before I get to that spot.


Have seen it blowing 20+ at the south end of Lummi while ~5-6 on the bay and glassy calm in the Rosario.

Yes! Have made the passage south of Lummi three times since this post, and it is always the breezier spot, followed by east sound.

[MartinR]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Well, that depends very much on the broach. With a big kite up? Or in massive breaking waves?

We are talking beginner here A broach in big breaking waves can kill you, but I hope the OP does not try this - yet.

[evm1024]

For those who do not know Lummi Island is about a mile wide at the widest, and is about 8 miles long. It is a massive fin that is over 1600' at the highest.

Winds could easily gust 2 times the clear air velocity in the right conditions. Think 60 kt gusts.

[wingssail]

Oh, memories of the south end of Lummi; I love the majesty of that high and mostly untouched island but the gusts at the southern tip, just as you make a left hand turn, can be quite surprising.

Your broach was not caused by the size of the waves or the length of the rudder. It was the fact that the mainsail overpowered the rudder and it stalled. Once flow is lost, with that deep spade, it will lose it's grip entirely. The width of the stern also has the affect of jacking the rudder out of the water a bit. Turning down as soon as you feel the wind's increase usually will prevent the broach, and you have plenty of room to bear away in that spot, however anticipation is the key. A 2nd reef, done ahead of time would help, but then you have to sail with reduced power when there are no gusts. Your choice.

[docsnuz]

We were coming across from Vancouver through Porlier Pass. The wind was brisk to say the least. We were in a Catalina 32 Calliope. Winds built as we travelled in company with a larger boat - 40'. As winds built and heel increased, we didn't reef but continued to harden the main. Until we were dipping the toerail on the leeward side and standing on the side of the cockpit! We still had steerage, mind you. Skipper finally gave the command to ease the main and the boat mostly righted and continued on, basically under genoa alone.

The larger boat, had opted to reef and so kept the main sheeted hard in. We had the exciting view of their broach and rounding up. Meeting up with their crew in the pub later that day, we heard it was a truly sphincter-clenching moment. Consensus was that relieving the pressure on the main would be our first choice if we ever found ourselves in that situation again.

I thought it was interesting that you were on a similar boat in the same area and had the same experience. I wouldn't suggest it was anything wrong with the boat or that there was anything wrong with your rudder. Just too much force behind the mast/keel (pivot point) spun you around like a top.

That experience really made an impression on us. We all went out and got t-shirts made with Ease the Main in various styles. It became our crew shirt going forward!

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by docsnuz

...That experience really made an impression on us. We all went out and got t-shirts made with Ease the Main in various styles. It became our crew shirt going forward!

Yes, If you dump the main right away it's very helpful. In gusty conditions, or where you are carrying a lot of weather helm (basically overpowered) the mainsheet should be uncleated and hand held, waiting for the helmsperson to call for it to be dumped, (about 6', in our case, usually is enough). If you don't care about where you head off to, turning down will also relieve the pressure on the rudder.

[sanibel sailor]

My sense is that a wider transom design, as currently popular, will be more likely to lose rudder control with heeling as the center of buoyancy moves more laterally, hinging the rudder out of the water earlier. This maybe one reason why the "big boy racers" with triangle shaped boats have twin rudders.

[MartinR]

Originally Posted by sanibel sailor

My sense is that a wider transom design, as currently popular, will be more likely to lose rudder control with heeling as the center of buoyancy moves more laterally, hinging the rudder out of the water earlier. This maybe one reason why the "big boy racers" with triangle shaped boats have twin rudders.

Of course! Also a beamier boat looses control easier than a narrow boat.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by sanibel sailor

My sense is that a wider transom design, as currently popular, will be more likely to lose rudder control with heeling as the center of buoyancy moves more laterally, hinging the rudder out of the water earlier. This maybe one reason why the "big boy racers" with triangle shaped boats have twin rudders.

There's a lot more to this than narrowing it down to one feature, a wide stern. Look at some of the IOR design era boats with very tucked in narrow sterns. Many of these are almost unmanageable downwind. Crews describe the steering in high winds as just plain squirrelly.

If a wide stern is taken to an extreme then it tends to have two, outboard rudders, making it track very well.