Getting ready to return to sailing

[N42519]

Greetings CF Community members. By way of introduction, I am 59 y/o, married male with previous sailing experience (but not so much recently). For the past 20 years I have focused my attentions on being a capable pilot and owner of 2 aircraft (Piper Cherokee PA-28-140 and a Cessna Skylane C-182-L). I have sold all aircraft and am now resisting the urge to fly in deference to my urge to return to the sea.

I owned 2 small sailboats back in the mid-seventies slash early eighties and have chartered (same timeframe) in the Abacos several times (Morgan 28, Oday 32, Morgan 35, CSY 37 and CSY 44), most recent sailing was in FL Keys 1993 on a Hunter 37.5. I am a projected 2-3 years from retirement and plan to sell the house in piedmont section of NC and find a small retirement home on coast of NC or SC. Included in this plan is a few years of live aboard cruising coastal eastern US, Bahamas and other areas (Gulf Coast waters) as the spirit permits. My wife is onboard with these plans (PTL).

Here is where I need your experience and input. Reading, researching and as the opportunity permits, looking for that ideal vessel to meet our needs. Trying to keep the boat purchase in the $50-60 range (depending of course on condition, etc) with $20K to spend in getting boat to cruising standard. I have a laundry list of boats I have considered on paper (which I won't share here at this time). We are attracted to a 35' to 39' range sloop, center cockpit preferred (but not a show stopper), easy to handle rig and comfortable enough to live aboard. I am really attracted to the Mariner 39 but I doubt 'll be able to afford one in cruising condition for the $$$ I will have available. Current sailing reading material includes: water sailing">Blue Water Sailing, Good Old Boat, Sailing and browsing the net.

Boats you recommend, boats to avoid, any other hints, tips or other info you think are beneficial in my search will be greatly appreciated.

Will gladly engage in conversation on any of these topics, either here in the forum or by email.

Blessings to all, and be of good cheer!
Buck

[Pblais]

We are attracted to a 35' to 39' range sloop, center cockpit preferred (but not a show stopper), easy to handle rig and comfortable enough to live aboard.

It probably is a good size range for any extended trips. You just don't get the capacity to carry all your stuff and have water and fuel tanks of sufficient size. The Mariner 39 would be a good choice but I think you are correct on the price. I wouldn't suggest too many boats by brand because in your price range it's the condition you need not the label. I would think staying closer to the lower end of the size range would be more affordable as far as getting something that won't require blowing the budget. Center cockpit boats of this size tend to give up a lot of space. I would let go of that option. A sloop or cutter will give you more usable space below and open up more boat choices.

Not sure what you thought about the CSY 37 but that would not be a bad choice. I had a CSY 33 and for the money it's the biggest 33 ft boat that I've ever seen. Our current Gozzard 36 is bigger than more 40 ft boats. I guess this is all to say "find the biggest small boat" that makes the budget work. You will stretch the budget with a better quality boat. At the high end of your range your budget is going to require some exceptional luck. To do that you need to forget about the perfect boat and look for the price and then the condition before you decide. The $K to get it ready is maybe just about right for a generally good boat.

[N42519]

Thanks for all of that Paul. I really appreciate your insights. I have considered the CSY but not having great success locating many online which fit the bill. I recently saw a 1977 Gulfstar 36 for $44K being sold "due to health". My remebrance is that Gulfstar's have some issues (quality)-do you have any opinion you are willing to air on them? Also: Morgan 382/384; Mariner 36 (NH built); Island Trader 38 Ketch; Cabo Rico 36 Tiberon. Any particular s/v or brand to avoid?

Many thanks- blessings and be of good cheer!
Buck

[Pblais]

I recently saw a 1977 Gulfstar 36 for $44K being sold "due to health". My remebrance is that Gulfstar's have some issues (quality)-do you have any opinion you are willing to air on them? Also: Morgan 382/384; Mariner 36 (NH built); Island Trader 38 Ketch; Cabo Rico 36 Tiberon. Any particular s/v or brand to avoid?

Gulfstar and Morgan are not considered real blue water boats. For poking around the bahama's they could be fine. Your searching is kicking up late 1970's coastal boats well past their prime. A newer coastal boat can stretch a few long passages but at this age you really could be in for some refitting to take a long trip. If you consider you'll probably end up replacing all the safety gear your $20 is shrinking fast with any boat. A beat up Blue Water boat really does not put you in much better shape either. I'm not seeing a lot of boat choices that keeps your price under $50K without going smaller.

Cabo Rico are probably out of your price range. Very pretty very solid boats though. So no problem with your taste in looks. As you get into the real blue water boats your budget needs to double or even more. A 1977 Gulfstar isn't a boat without needing a fair amount of refit at 30 years old. You may find some recently refitted early 1980's boats that folks are done with their cruising available closer to your price, but above 36 ft it's going to be hard.

Taking a closer look at your destinations might get you back into coastal type boats where you can pick your weather and keep all passages in pretty close ranges. That lets you still range pretty far with a lot less budget on the actual boat.

There is a CSY 33 "Emily" in Wilmington for sale for $39K. It looks just like the single cabin CSY 37. There are a few 37's for sale but more in the $65K -$80K range. These of course are all late 70's boats. If you look at Yachtworld you'll see the lower end of the 37's price range but even at that you won't refit one in your budget. I know the 33 for sale slightly and it's been mostly refit. Some of the 37's are too. I throw those out as examples since you have been on them before and at least can get the idea in your mind better. There are of course other choices but if you can get your head into these boats it can set you up better to look at others.

Take a mouse click to yachtworld.com and start plugging in numbers, sizes and dollars and see what you can make work from a money standpoint. Read all the text too and get a feel for the specs. Then look at the prices above your budget and got through it all again. You just have to know that bargain prices often have a few years of neglect added that can add another $40K to $30K of costs right after the sale plus your $20K preparation provisioning budget. If possible at least take a few trips close to home and walk on a few boats. With all your airplane experience you should catch on quickly just what these boats are all about.

We are in a pretty soft market right now so with cash you can cut a decent deal but you can't steal anything that won't require a lot of work.

I would spend a bit of your time before retiring just doing some sailing - any way you can! You want some hours under your belt before you jump off the edge of the world and of course it's all fun too. Give your wife some hours too. The captain never sleeps when the admiral is unhappy. This would be a perfect time to to grow into the idea together. Every bit of it is supposed to be fun!

[SkiprJohn]

Aloha Buck,
Welcome aboard!! Good to have you here. I like Paul's opinions and agree with most of them. I would not go over 36 but that is just my opinion. I would also not go with center cockpit. Let us know what you are looking at by boat name and length and you'll probably get lots of opinions.
I've sailed two kinds of Mariners and both were good boats. I'm a bit skeptical now of boats with cabin tops made of ply and covered with glass unless I'm allowed to probe around with an ice pick to find the areas of dry rot. I don't care for teak decks although they are very pretty they do develop leaks.
Good luck in your search and I think the best way to search is get aboard as many boats as you can to check them out.
Kind Regards,
JohnL

[David_Old_Jersey]

Although I do not recognise any of the stateside boats, I do think you are already heading in the right direction by keeping your options open and also by budgetting in a decent size refurb kitty. As PBLAIS indicated, it will probably come down to coming across a boat in the right condition for the money, and the more open you are to actual model the easier this is.

But reading between the lines of your plans it seems that you are not planning a future that is solely afloat, in which case maybe you do not reallly need to be in the 35+ range and can drop a couple of feet? (and $$$!!).

[dcstrng]

<I have a laundry list of boats I have considered on paper…>

My guess is as a pilot you’re probably fairly methodical in your approach… Over the last decade I did a similar morphing back to the water from the air (after a sizeable hiatus due to outside factors) – compiling a home-grown database/spreadsheet that calculated all the usual stuff; D/L, screening numbers, performance projections, you name it, etc., etc….

At first I think I scoured every sizeable listing service for boats near your range – slightly smaller in my case. Fell in love with dozens of `em, but eventually began to look at the qualities I preferred rather than name brands… I think I eventually came to the conclusion that due to the years of the vessels I was looking at, survey would be far more indicative of a vessel’s worthiness for me rather than manufacturers’ reputation or construction history/methods… once I jumped that hurdle and deleted “yacht” from my working lexicon, the possibilities expanded exponentially – although I suspect one shopping for a near turn-key vessel might still linger there…

Eventually I ended up with something much (much) smaller, with few of the features I was sure I needed other than sea-kindliness, but which appealed to my bride’s wood-working penchant and we’re happily puttering along with the project… Long winded way of saying, I think if one can, it might be smoother to nail down the qualities one is looking for in a vessel rather for than name-brands – almost limitless vessels, and many of supposedly suspect lineage, have made successful, comfortable and seamanlike world voyages… In my case I swore I was not going to get a vessel with balsa cored structures, so of course that’s what I ended up with, but I tapped diligently all around the rascal until I was reasonably sure any delaminations/incursions were minimal… In anycase, I might shop to the bottom end of your budget range, weighing the qualities/priorities desired (if you have choose between mahogany/teak interior or fresh sails, which wins….), against what is available or adaptable and only stray upward budget-wise if nothing else popped up – good luck…

[Southern Star]

Greetings Buck! If all you are considering is coastal cruising and a trip to the Bahamas, you will not need what would traditionally be considered an 'offhsore' boat. This will open up many more possibilities in your price range.

I tend to agree with the those suggesting that you stay away from a center-cockpit layout. Particularly in the size range you are looking at, you can only get standing headroom in the walkway to the aft cabin if the boat has HUGE freeboard; this will have adverse effects not only on appearance, but also on the boat's performance to windward and while under anchor. And of course a center cockpit will be wetter while underway, will tend to raise the boat's center of gravity, and will be much more difficult for ingress/egress while docking.

There are numerous Beneteau's, Jenneau's, Pearsons, C.S.'s etc. from the mid 1980's which will have decent sailing performance/construction and the benefit of a separate aft cabin, all while avoiding the negatives of a center cockpit. Essentially, this layout (small aft cabin, aft head ) was first popularized around that time and has continued to be the most popular in boats in your size range.

It will put you into a somewhat newer boat and hence, a little less LOA for the buck than something built in the 70's. That being said, you will actually gain in useable interior space compared to more traditional layouts, and will also tend to have newer gear/equipment. Propane ranges, for example, did not become standard equipment until the 1980's, most manufacturers choosing instead to install inferior, but traditional alcohol/kerosene stoves. Further, by the mid 80's most manufacturers were installing ST winches and leading the lines aft to clutches on the coachouse.

It is also important to bear in mind that by the mid 1980's many manufacturers were giving consideration to the use of isothalphic resins/epoxy barrier coats in order to reduce the risk of osmotic blistering. Further, the reduction in the use of teak on deck will reduce maintenance dramatically.

To find a nice example that is also well equipped for cruising may result in your having to reduce your expected LOA to the 32' - 34' range. But remember that docking is by the foot, and the cost of replacing sails, running and standing rigging, anchors/rode etc. will all be cheaper on the smaller vessel. You will end up with a boat that will likely be easier to re-sell down the road (as it is more modern in layout/appearance) and which will have accomodation greater than most of the traditional designs of the 70's. In addition, they perform quite well on all points of sail and in all conditions except the most extreme.

Brad



Brad

Brad

[N42519]

Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to respond. Great insight and very helpful information from all. Heading over to YachtWorld.com to refine some searching and data gathering and methodical assessment of what I want to see when I hit the docks and boatyard.

Blessings and be of good cheer to all. Happy New Year!
Buck

PS any other boat seach sites to check out?

[geoleo]

Nantucket33!!!!