Another New Hello . . . with Questions. Can You Help ?

[sunangel]

Hey all. I tripped over this little website and I can't believe what I found!! What a great place.
I'm West Coaster, although we are in Colorado now (so, not sure if I'm West or East any more, but my roots will always be West). My new husband (still sounds weird...husband ) and I, met looking at boats and our first date was walking the local docks in Seattle.... this weekend actually, many years ago. So, now we are finally in a position (mid life, well he's mid life..I'm not) and looking to buy a boat in the next several months to put back in the Pac NW waters were we fell in love (a second home of sorts). We work by computer, so we'll have time to travel between both locations (and bring the puppies once in awhile). Anyone know of a good dog thread to read?
We are very excited about this new lifestyle. I have sailing experience (cruising and racing, before I met him, in Seattle) and he is mechanically inclined and understands systems and has been reading articles on boats since he was 10. So together we'll learn the rest and enjoy. I also have several friends from years past that boat in the Seattle area that we could meet up with. Anyone here in that area?
We're looking at SeaRays, mostly because of the name brand and the number on the market to choose from. I also haven't met an unhappy owner of a Searay. Are you? We are looking all up and down the West. We had also considered a Doral, a Larsen, Cruisers and Chaparral. Any thoughts on these other boats? We are looking at 34'-41'...gas only by reason of price (we really prefer diesel but can't find a single one on the West under $200k). Comfort is important to us, we like the back room on the boats I mentioned above, since we are not 5'0" and 100lbs and neither are our dogs (3 really big pups) we don't want to feel on top of each other or crowded after a week. This is the one reason we chopped Tiara off our list, just not enough comforts. We really prefer Cummins motors, but the Cat 3126 are good too. NO 3116!! Gas needs to be powered properly hp to weight ratio. We like the 8.1 Mercruiser, but I'm sure Volvos are good too. Lost on the rest. Send me your thoughts for new directions to consider. Since we live in CO, the boat will sit for at least a few weeks at a time and we want more boat, longer, newer as possible (gas better), but when we go we don't want to spend too much money getting there, and we want the range (diesel). In the long run, depreciation is a factor (gas an issue), we want very little if possible (get diesel). We just can only seem to find the Cruisers in the diesel, on the West Coast under $200k (prefer $100-150k, but the $200 listings may come down enough, who knows) nothing else. Do you know of another boat that is for sale I missed (been looking at Yachtworld) or a brand you recommend that is within our preferences? Looking forward to your comments and help as we move forward in our new quest. What a great board!!
Sunangel

[David M]

Welcome to the forum Sunangel!

In my own experience with the Searays that I have been around...they are generally good boats. Stay away from any Bayliners. Hire a very experienced, accredited marine surveyor before purchasing. You can have really bad and really good boats amongst the same brand and model...so go with the surveyors opinion on any given boat. Cummins owns Mercruiser but I still like the Cummins brand better. Mercruiser tends to be more for the recreational market. Cummins is for both but builds the heavier duty engines for commercial use as well. I have heard good things about Cats from other commercial skippers. I have very little practical experience with them myself.

The diesel that I highly recommend are the newest Cummins B-series turbo diesels. I just had two installed on the research vessel that I skipper for a living. I would shy away from the Volvo's. They are inexpensive initially but the parts are outrageously expensive. Volvo seems to make their money back on the cost of parts. Yanmar engines create a lot of horsepower from a relatively small displacement. I have heard good and bad about Yanmar for powerboat applications. In general though, the more horsepower that is extracted from a given displacement, the shorter the engine life. I would not write off a Yanmar engine though. A good diesel mechanic and an oil analysis will tell you what kind of condition the engine is in. Absolutely get the oil analysis! An oil analysis has a remarkable amount of information about the engines condition.

For a boat that sized, stay away from gasoline engines. Gas is dangerous and not as efficient as diesel. The new computer controlled diesel engines burn remarkably clean so the old stinky diesel of the past is pretty much on the way out.

With a powerboat your range will varie dramatically with your speed. Start pushing past theoretical hull speed and your miles per gallon will drop like a rock. The newer diesels will tell you gallons per hour..which is really nice since it can be converted into miles per gallon by plotting a speed curve. Hull speed is the square root of the length at the waterline in feet times 1.34.

Plotting out an RPM vs miles per gallon curve (or GPM) will give you better predictability on range.

Enjoy your new boat...whichever one you choose.

[David M]

One more thought comes to mind. As others have stated in here...I tend to agree with the overall philosophy of buying new or almost new versus buying used and worn out and then attempting to fix up. It's inevitable that with used older boats that the cost to fix up always goes higher than expected because of problems that are impossible to predict beforehand or easily overlooked. Besides, wouldn't you rather spend your valuable time underway than in a boatyard...or waiting for the boatyard to finish the work? Some will differ with me on this philosophy, but is it is something to take into consideration depending on how you feel about fixing up a boat.

I think that the sweet spot for buying a boat time wise is a boat that is only a few years old. They have had that initial depreciation from being new yet they are not worn out and in need of tens of thousands of dollars of work to bring them back into good condition. Of course this is a generalization and not specific to any one boat, particularly to charter boats that in general get used heavily and by people who are not necessarily gentle to boats.

Try to find a boat that spent the vast majority of its time at the slip and an owner who basically lost interest and/or got tired of the expenses yet one who kept up on the maintenance.

[Therapy]

Go diesel.
No question.

[SkiprJohn]

Aloha Sunangel,
Welcome aboard!! Looks like you are already getting replies to your comments, questions. I can't add anything since I'm not on the West Coast and don't have a power boat. PNW is a great place to power or sail and I just spent a couple weeks there earlier this month. Beautiful weather and great boating community.
Kind Regards,
JohnL

[sunangel]

Thank you for the comments. But let me be clear. We want a diesel first and foremost, but as I said, we can't find one out here in our price range/size. Sounds like most of you would rather haul from the East Coast (although I'm worried about sun/ wind / winter damage etc. The west coasters I've talked to are good at telling stories about the horrible FL or East Coast boat that was...I don't want a problem covered up that even a surveyor doesn't see, that pops up 3 months from now in winter), or should we wait until a diesel comes along, if it does at all. Not sure what to do here. Are you all saying gas isn't worth it at any price? What about a 34' gas? I understand most of them are gas at 34' and that really gas isn't a bad option for a 34'. However a 40' in gas IS a bad idea....I agree. But what's a girl to do with limits on money to spend?

[SkiprJohn]

Aloha Sunangel,
A beautiful Chris Craft about 42 feet with diesel 6-71s for power was at the Wooden Boat Festival and I believe the price was $165K. You probably don't want wood?
JohnL

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by sunangel

Are you all saying gas isn't worth it at any price?
?

Yup........

[sunangel]

No wooden boats, but thanks. Looking for an Express 2000+.
Wow..Therapy...your a person of many words. Very to the point. Thanks for the comments, they are considered.

[David M]

Where have you looked?

Have you looked here?
YachtWorld.com Boats and Yachts for Sale

Boat & Yacht Search Interface @ MarineSource.com

Search for used boat : Yacht Council

Ebay?

Craigs List?

YachtTraderOnline.com - Search Yachts or find a Broker for your yacht

Gas vs Diesel.
1. The only advantage gas has over diesel is the engines are cheaper, but they do not last as long.

2. Gasoline has the tendency to find its way into large bilges and go boom sending the owners and their guests to their maker.

3. Gasoline is flammable as hell and there is nowhere to run when you are out on the water.

4. You get more horses per buck with Diesel. I believe the figure is about 30%

5. Diesels are far more reliable.

For me, the most important factor is safety. Small boats are generally far better ventilated than larger vessels simply from the shape of small vessels vs large vessels. Large vessels tend to have large bowl shaped cabins that are perfect for harboring gasoline fumes. Gasoline engines just don't belong on larger yachts. In fact the USGC does not allow gas engines on larger inspected passenger vessels for good reason...they are dangerous. All it takes is a cups worth of gasoline vaporized in the cabin or bilge to kill you from an explosion. Fuel lines can leak...its a pretty common occurence.

[Intentional Drifter]

According to BoatUS Insurance, 95% of fuel fires on boats are caused by gasoline. When you have a boat with lots of gasoline on board, just imagine the explosive power.

Plus, it is not just your boat at risk. A couple of years ago, a fire at the Gig Harbor Marina sank 50 boats. After the first boat caught fire, the others started going. People who were there described the propane tanks exploding one after another.

Obviously, we all have a responsibility to do everything we can to minimize the hazard. Going diesel vs gas is one of those things.

ID

[bearphish]

i'm a right coast guy, but i look at ads on alot of the online boat sales sights, and have seen ALOT of land-locked diesel cruisers, though i dont pay much attention to them, and personally don't understand why someone in Iowa would want/need a 50+ ft Viking. you might try and find a freshwater "ocean boat" for sale and get it at a really good price, and have it shipped professionally to the left coast. i have seen trawler type vessels in the middle of Georgia and such that almost made me consider buying one for the comfort. and as far as i could tell, they had little to no salt time. this is an obvious plus, eh? just a thought, and WELCOME ABOARD!

[jtrapper]

Hey Colorado,
We too are looking for a cruising boat diesel, around 40', see our thread under power boats. Our problem is our location, it is a huge trip just to look at boats. Looking at pictures on the internet, it seems that Sea Ray and Cruisers have the best layouts for extended liveaboard. Have you found anything better?? Good luck in your search...
Fellow Colorado wannabeee boaters

[Intentional Drifter]

Hey jtrapper (welcome to the forum) --

You might want to note the dates on the posts -- this thread was over three years ago. I think the OP might have moved on.

ID

[NotQuiteLost]

Wow, I must be asleep at the switch here, I didn't even notice how old this thread is.