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Yachts66 · 09-01-2012, 07:08

Ok, I'll bite: Why "wooden" and why "ketch?"

Just curious.

Thomas

SaltyMonkey · 09-01-2012, 08:30

Why steel? why fiberglass? why pine-cones? why ice creme sandwiches? Why summer and winter solstice - isn't one enuff?

One monkeys bannnnanana skin is another monkeys peel is what SaltyMonkey says! YAY!!!@!@!@

zeehag · 09-01-2012, 10:51

why steel, glass, wood, aluminum, ferro-- but a split rig works best for cruising when hit with weather of the heavier variety....... more ability to control the boat underway.....less weatherhelm, full keel makes tracking excellent.... beam helps comfort.....less fcreeboard for those likin g fastass sailing and more for the heavy boats liking ful keel with split rig slow and comfortable passages. is easy.
yes i have both a sloop woith low freeboard, fin/spade for not cruising--actually for sale,, and a heavy attitude for cruising. btdt with a sloop for cruising--was most uncomfortable. thius is a fine sailing ketch that likes heavy weather........

Yachts66 · 09-01-2012, 17:45

You guys crack me up!! LOL

sic5y360 · 09-01-2012, 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yachts66

Ok, I'll bite: Why "wooden" and why "ketch?"

Just curious.

Thomas

Hey Thomas, good question.

Why Wood?

I have always felt an affinity with wood. In the case of an old wooden boat, I feel it has a soul somehow, as though it is a living thing and deserves my respect, even though I know it is not. I have learned my craft from dead men, many gone before, and I also honour and respect the craftsmanship of all things older and wood! I have given new life to buildings in that way too, with more than substantial renovations no one else would have bothered with because somehow I felt I owed it to the building/home. I suppose I am sentimental. I also enjoy the unique character of something older and hand made. The original craftsman poured his own vision and personality into the boat. I also feel comfortable understanding the materials and knowing that I should be able to manage the structural and aesthetic maintenance and repairs. Alas, I am a romantic and therefore I am drawn to the boats like that.

Why a Ketch?

I am still learning so perhaps my opinion will change, but for now it comes down to function and design. Esthetically, I like the lines of the ketch (and the schooner). I like how solid it looks ont of the water and how integral the keel is. It seems to make sense to me. Functionally, these vessels are reported to be very solid and safe. I also like the size of 50ft as I think it is more spacious, thus homey for me.

Vessels I like.

www.stthomasyachts.com 52 ft john alden custom

Cruising on "ARITA"

I just missed out on another John Alden Custom Ketch, asking 99k, but it is now sold.

I am not quite yet in a position to purchase something, I need to sell more real estate yet and shed my responsibilities, but I think within a year I may be ready. I can afford to purchase the boat with a reserve of investment in the bank, and also have enough monthly to depend on to not have to be too tight. Of course, I am also hoping for a first mate one day to share the dream, and the responsibilities, so if she coulld also contribute, we could have an enviable life. At 49 years old, I could have a much larger retirement income if I waited, but it has recently occured to me that I have enough and that I could do this now.

"You must always have a plan, but you are allowed to change it when desired"

Yachts66 · 10-01-2012, 00:22

Interesting comments, thank you. Actually I'm a steel boat guy, but at the moment I'm building wooden boats, go figure! There is a beauty to wood to be sure and it has character, but in my heart, I remain a steel boat guy and if the God's smile upon me, I'll be building a couple here in the not too distant future.

As to multiple sticks, I've sailed both and I'll stick with a cutter rig thank you very much. Even my Roberts 65 steel was double headsl' cutter rigged. Whopping big sails on that girl, but roller furling has come a long way and tames big sails quite well. A good reefing system on the boom makes a big main pretty manageable too.

Regards,

Thomas

sic5y360 · 10-01-2012, 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yachts66

As to multiple sticks, I've sailed both and I'll stick with a cutter rig thank you very much. Even my Roberts 65 steel was double headsl' cutter rigged. Whopping big sails on that girl, but roller furling has come a long way and tames big sails quite well. A good reefing system on the boom makes a big main pretty manageable too.

Regards,

Thomas

Thanks too for your reply. For me, I know and understand wood. So I feel that there is nothing I could not fix/repair. Also it comes from a living thing, so I know it also lived before its present use.

I would be interested to know why you are a steel boat guy. Is it because like me with wood, you are a master of those materials? As far as the rest of your post, could you explain some more, I am so new to all of this, I dont understand all of the terminology, so dont assume I understand. And this forthcoming knowledge could ultimately sway me in my ultimate decision, thanks.

Yachts66 · 10-01-2012, 01:18

Why am I a steel boat guy? I'm a pretty decent welder for sure, better than I am a wood worker, but that isn't the reason.

I'm one of those guys who sails to far away places. I like going where other folks don't. I cross oceans when some of the folks here only sit in arm chairs and dream about it. When crossing those oceans, or exploring those out of the way places, that's what makes me a steel boat guy. It's on those dark nights at sea when you can't see your hand in front of your face, much less what's right in front of your bow that makes me a steel boat guy. If the God's are angry and I hit one of the thousands of containers lost off ships each year, or a big tree or anything else that floats on the sea, if I hit one of those things in that formerly living wood boat of yours I sink, and I sink quickly. Hopefully, I have enough time to grab the ditch bag and step up into the life raft....hopefully.

If I'm in one of those mass produced glass boats that everyone else sails, I sink about as fast.

Same result. Now, if I'm in a ferro boat, maybe I bounce off, maybe I end up with a leak in the bow, maybe I sink, hard to say what would happen and it all depends on who you talk to.

But if I'm in a steel boat, odds are I bounce off. With a little luck I maybe get a dent, but maybe not even that and just scratch the paint. Either way, I don't sink and I probably don't even worry about it opting to wait until morning to see if I need to break out the paint. In any case, I didn't sink. Sinking in the middle of the ocean holds no allures for me. It's one of those experiences in life I can quite happily live without. What I just said about steel is mostly true about aluminum too, mostly, but not completely.

My 65' steel Roberts was in a slip too short for her and she stuck out a bit. Since I had steps built into the stern, I usually backed into the slip which left the bow hanging out. My bow had a sheet of 1/4" 316 stainless wrapped around it going back a couple of feet on either side of the bow. Extra thickness to insure no damage if I hit something and stainless so if I did hit something I didn't have to worry about rust developing. Anyway, a drunk fisherman in a wood fishing boat came into the marina late at night and had spent more time drinking beer than fishing. He managed to ram my bow with his bow. Were it not for the fact that the Coasties had an emergency pump all set up just a couple hundred yards away and that the marina's lift operator only lived a couple blocks away, his boat would have sunk. Instead they kept it floating and got it moved onto the hard so he could repair the stove in bow my steel boat gave him when he hit it. In due time I was called and went down to check on my boat. Upon close inspection, I found one place where the paint was slightly marred.....and THAT is why I have steel boats!

Regards,

Thomas

sic5y360 · 10-01-2012, 01:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yachts66

Why am I a steel boat guy? I'm a pretty decent welder for sure, better than I am a wood worker, but that isn't the reason.

If the God's are angry and I hit one of the thousands of containers lost off ships each year, or a big tree or anything else that floats on the sea, if I hit one of those things in that formerly living wood boat of yours I sink, and I sink quickly

thats the kind of stuff I need to know I guess as the vessel I purchase should have true water sailing">blue water sailing ability, I too would like to cross some oceans. I have heard about the containers et al, is there no way of picking that kind of stuff up on a radar or something to help mitigate the risk? Its scarey to think about hitting something at sea and sinking, as a matter of fact, its just about the most terrifying way to go I can think of.....

I dont know about "the Gods" but the one God I know holds me in the palm of his hand. When he deems my time is up then I will accept that and go.

Yachts66 · 10-01-2012, 08:47

Nope, radar is useless because they float right at or just under the water. The ones full of electronics (all the foam packing) are particularly bad I'm told. Your only chance is to see them before you hit them, but of course, at night it's nigh unto impossible. That said, it's a big ocean and maybe there are 10,000 containers out there, but that still leaves a whole lot of sea with no containers at all, so don't be overly concerned....just prepared.

**hummingway** · 10-01-2012, 08:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yachts66

Why am I a steel boat guy? I'm a pretty decent welder for sure, better than I am a wood worker, but that isn't the reason.

I'm one of those guys who sails to far away places. I like going where other folks don't. I cross oceans when some of the folks here only sit in arm chairs and dream about it.

This is disingenuous. A lot more people in this forum cross oceans in plastic boats then steel boats. Nothing wrong with steel boats but as a reason for it this doesn't keep the water out.

Yachts66 · 10-01-2012, 09:03

Of course, glass boats are the only material that lends itself to mass production, so you can build more boats for less money. Does that make them better? Not even, it just makes them cheaper to build!

Regards,

Thomas

sic5y360 · 10-01-2012, 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yachts66

Nope, radar is useless because they float right at or just under the water. The ones full of electronics (all the foam packing) are particularly bad I'm told. Your only chance is to see them before you hit them, but of course, at night it's nigh unto impossible. That said, it's a big ocean and maybe there are 10,000 containers out there, but that still leaves a whole lot of sea with no containers at all, so don't be overly concerned....just prepared.

Well this brings up a whole host of questions. How come they are not being actively sought out and collected? Is there any legal recourse against the companies that lost the containers? How many reports of sailboats actually hitting them and the actual consequences of such, or does the info dissapear with the sailor and his boat? Is it a given that if a wooden or glass boat were to come against a container that they would suffer such a serious consequence?

On another note, I am learning. Something I have to concede and I am slightly embarrassed to admit. It seems that the boating styles are more distinguished by their sail layouts rahter than their hulls and keels? Or is it both? I was thinking that a ketch had a certain keel, but now the discussion turned to the sails. Ack, I have so much to learn......

sic5y360 · 10-01-2012, 10:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yachts66

Nope, radar is useless because they float right at or just under the water. The ones full of electronics (all the foam packing) are particularly bad I'm told. Your only chance is to see them before you hit them, but of course, at night it's nigh unto impossible. That said, it's a big ocean and maybe there are 10,000 containers out there, but that still leaves a whole lot of sea with no containers at all, so don't be overly concerned....just prepared.

You would think someone could come up with some kind of device to detect these metal objects???

http://webecoist.momtastic.com/2011/...ng-containers/