Ocean acidifcation .

[SailOar]

Originally Posted by newhaul

love the colloquial article thrown in for effect the whole of which may or may not be real

But it doesn't answer the math question I put to you . Although not the figures I presented I will allow the use of your 4 mm rise figure ( although I suspect its more due to the gate location subsiding ).

How many cp decades or centuries to inundate 10% of the actual lands ?

It's not merely out-and-out flooding that's the only concern, but storm surges. For instance, Hurricane Sandy, which was so hard on NYC, happened to coincide with a high tide.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by jackdale

Dismissing Science Magazine as colloquial is downright bizarre.

went back and reread the article and here is a quote from it that blows your whole argument out of the water so to speak .

The 4-meter-high earthen wall that failed dated from the 1960s. It encircles 80 square kilometers of land to create a massive "polder"—an artificial island surrounded by the vast tidal rivers that extend like thick tendrils from the nearby Bay of Bengal. At 66, Sardar remembers conditions before the wall, when flooding during very high tides was the norm here.

Sounds a lot like Holland here . Just on a much smaller shorter time scale .

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by SailOar

It's not merely out-and-out flooding that's the only concern, but storm surges. For instance, Hurricane Sandy, which was so hard on NYC, happened to coincide with a high tide.

yes it did as a matter of fact it was a king tide . But if you recall all the articles written failed to mention this fact .

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

No sh!t. But it isn't being cited as AGW "evidence", it's pointing out who will be among its' first victims. Of course, better, smarter people like you could maybe give them a short refresher on "adaptation".

Speaking of Sydney:


(ok, JD beat me to it)

But you are of course free to give greater weight to the cherry-picked data from a single forum post.

OK, Bangladesh is not cited as AGW "evidence" but as amongst its first "victims." This is almost as persuasive as your little quibbles over burdens of proof and natural forces.

It wasn't a "single forum post" but 100 years of recorded tidal gauge data from Ft. Denison. You and JD's exclusive reliance on the NASA sat data would be the cherry-picking, since I have no cause to accept, reject, dispute, nor ignore either dataset. None of us are climate scientists, but you two have long since reached your own conclusions, and simply use whatever "evidence" your preferred "science" supports.

[thinwater]

While it is clear most of the posters are not interested in the chemistry, one way or the other, Since no one mentioned calcium solubility, I will say only this:



The big deal about pH is not that pH has some immediately devastating effect on life. As humans, we can exist in a wide range of conditions and eat foods with pH 3-8 without discomfort. Acid gives food an agreeable tang and stomach acid has a pH around 1. However, the ability of coral and shellfish to deposit calcium is extremely pH dependent. Note that the above is a log 10 scale; a change of 1 unit is 10 times. Additionally, coral reefs only survive because the ocean is basically saturated (no more will dissolve) with calcium). They can dissolve if the balance changes. This will be slow, of course. Likewise, it will be reasonably permanent.



So if you want to understand what pH change does in the long term, read up on the calcium equilibrium. This is not climate science nor is it political. This is just old school chemistry, something like gravity. No politics.


OK, one political statement. There are actually many positions within the debate.

1. The world will change and that is a problem. Maybe we can do something. Maybe we can't do enough.
2. The world will change and we will adapt. Many of these people would like to do something, but see themselves as realists. They are not all wrong.
3. Change will take a long time and so I don't care what happens. At least be honest about it. Life is hard. I get it. Or you just want more.
4. Pick the first Google position that agrees with the position you have. This can be applied to any issue. Disinformation has been a powerful tool ever since language was invented.

[SailOar]

Originally Posted by Exile

No, not due to any intransigence on Kenomac's part actually. His boats, home & business are covered in solar panels, thereby making him part of the solution not the problem. The atmosphere could care less what he "believes," only that he's not emitting as much CO2 as . . . well . . . you probably are (and me). You starting to see how counter-productive personalizing such issues really is?

No, the positive actions of a handful of people are insufficient to solve the problem. For any real success there has to be intergovernmental cooperation. And in democratic countries like ours, that means that the populace has to be onboard -- or at least tolerant of what their governments decide to do. Hence the need to keep arguing about this topic, year after year.

And you might be interested to know that at least a few authoritarian governments appear to be making unexpected progress. It makes the US's infatuation with Trump all the more embarrassing.

China is on track to meet its climate change goals nine years early

...Now an analysis has found that China’s emissions could peak at 13 to 16 gigatonnes of CO2 between 2021 and 2025, making what the researchers call a “a great contribution” to meeting the Paris deal’s goal of limiting temperature rises to 2°C. The official target is a peak by “around 2030.”....

The possibility of an early peak has been driven by the changing nature of China’s economy, a shift which is likely to continue. “As China moves towards a higher tech and service economy, it is likely to show how the passage to a low-carbon economy and robust and sustainable growth in an emerging market economy can be mutually supportive,” says Nicholas Stern, of the London School of Economics. The expectation of a peak by 2025 is in line with the lower end of other projections.

However, Haikun and colleagues admit they didn’t analyse many small cities, which have the potential to develop more, so the real emissions may end up higher. The US-based thinktank World Resources Institute also says that while more countries are peaking emissions – 57 are due by 2030, up from 19 in 1990 – it will still not be enough to make global emissions peak in the next few years.

[S/V Illusion]

To summarize, what if any effects of anthropogenic climate change have not been definitively quantified.

So-called “acidification” of the oceans is both a misnomer and a myth, and

Nothing will apparently change the closed mind of liberal arts majors who have no expertise regarding climate science and who apparently prefer instead to cherry pick that which confirms their perceptions.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by Exile

You and JD's exclusive reliance on the NASA sat data would be the cherry-picking,

The tidal graphs we presented for Fort Denison go back 170 years, long before satellites.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

To summarize, what if any effects of anthropogenic climate change have not been definitively quantified.

So-called “acidification” of the oceans is both a misnomer and a myth, and

Nothing will apparently change the closed mind of liberal arts majors who have no expertise regarding climate science and who apparently prefer instead to cherry pick that which confirms their perceptions.

Wrong.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by SailOar

No, the positive actions of a handful of people are insufficient to solve the problem. For any real success there has to be intergovernmental cooperation. And in democratic countries like ours, that means that the populace has to be onboard -- or at least tolerant of what their governments decide to do. Hence the need to keep arguing about this topic, year after year.

And you might be interested to know that at least a few authoritarian governments appear to be making unexpected progress. It makes the US's infatuation with Trump all the more embarrassing.

China is on track to meet its climate change goals nine years early

Nothing embarrassing about the US achieving more CO2 reductions than any other single country in the world, and accomplishing it the same way humans have always overcome obstacles, namely through technology, initiative, and incentives, not deprivation. Not too many people motivated to emigrate to authoritarian countries, and fewer still who are so susceptible to their state-sponsored news propaganda, but you seem rather vulnerable so should perhaps consider a move. I hear Venezuela could use some more people these days as well.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by jackdale

The tidal graphs we presented for Fort Denison go back 170 years, long before satellites.

Present whatever tidal graphs you wish, but unless you can objectively reconcile or impugn the 100-year dataset earlier presented, then acknowledge that the discrepancy cannot be explained. I don't see how simply ignoring data helps the credibility of your positions.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by Exile

Present whatever tidal graphs you wish, but unless you can objectively reconcile or impugn the 100-year dataset earlier presented, then acknowledge that the discrepancy cannot be explained. I don't see how simply ignoring data helps the credibility of your positions.

That data set has no citation, but appears to be a email that circulating.

https://jennifermarohasy.com/2019/07...comment-652298

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by Marc1

This is reality:

Daniel Fitzhenry – Hydrographic Surveyor
581 Singleton Road, Laughtondale NSW 2775 Australia
Phone 02 4566 4576 Mobile 0419 876 222
Email: fitzynet@bigpond.net.au ABN 11 216 559131

Capt. Daniel Fitzhenry – CPHS1 Hydrographic Surveyor - Registered Surveyor – Dip. Environmental Studies (Macq.)
Steven Fitzhenry – B.Eng. (Civil) Sydney – MIE Aust. – Maritime Civil & Structural Engineer – Project Manager
Capt. Adam Fitzhenry – B. Eng. Honours (Civil) Syd, MBA AGSM – Maritime Civil & Structural Engineer – Oceanographer
Ellie Fitzhenry – B.Sc (Sydney) – Marine Biology & Ecology – Marine Science
Capt. Paul McGaw – ROV Operations Manager – Electrical & Mechanical Engineer
Tracey Hay – B.A (Macq) – Project Coordinator – IT, Statistics & Research Manager

Rising Sea Levels – The Climate Debate

The seas and oceans to the east of Australia forms the largest body of water on Earth. This broadly connected vast body of water presents a genuine sea level. The Sydney Fort Denison Recording Station provides stable, accurate and genuine mean sea level data. The following table shows mean sea levels at
10 year intervals and these levels are related to Chart Datum which is at the lowest spring tide level.

100 YEARS OF MEAN SEA LEVELS AT FORT DENISON, SYDNEY:
1914 – 1.11 metres
1924 – 0.98 metres
1934 – 0.98 metres
1944 – 0.97 metres
1954 – 1.00 metres
1964 – 1.09 metres
1974 – 1.09 metres
1984 – 1.02 metres
1994 – 1.04 metres
2004 – 1.08 metres
2014 – 1.12 metres
2019 – 1.05 metres

That data set has no citation, but appears to be a email that circulating.

https://jennifermarohasy.com/2019/07...comment-652298

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Exile

Nothing embarrassing about the US achieving more CO2 reductions than any other single country in the world, and accomplishing it the same way humans have always overcome obstacles, namely through technology, initiative, and incentives, not deprivation.

In other news, a morbidly obese guy lost 10 pounds when frozen yogurt went on sale, becoming cheaper than ice-cream.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by Exile

Present whatever tidal graphs you wish, but unless you can objectively reconcile or impugn the 100-year dataset earlier presented, then acknowledge that the discrepancy cannot be explained. I don't see how simply ignoring data helps the credibility of your positions.

Another set of Fort Dension data.



https://www.psmsl.org/data/obtaining/stations/65.php

1914 looks a lot like a cherry pick. The data base goes back further than 1914.

Fitzhenry's letter: https://saltbushclub.com/wp-content/...sea-levels.pdf