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Old 22-06-2013, 22:53   #1
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Legal Stuff

I was just wondering, since the Constitution of the US guarantees freedom from search and seizure without due process, specifically a warrant issued that describes the place to be searched and the items searched for, how does that interlink with the USCG and other LEO's like local sheriffs deputies boarding vessels within the US waters?
It's a question that's been nagging me for some time, as I often hear of USCG and LEO's boarding vessels for 'safety inspections' and searches w/o the requisite warrants.
Come on, legal seadogs, enlighten the landlubber!!

Article [IV]

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
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Old 22-06-2013, 22:59   #2
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Re: Legal Stuff

Quote:
Originally Posted by lostsheep View Post
I was just wondering, since the Constitution of the US guarantees freedom from search and seizure without due process, specifically a warrant issued that describes the place to be searched and the items searched for, how does that interlink with the USCG and other LEO's like local sheriffs deputies boarding vessels within the US waters?
It's a question that's been nagging me for some time, as I often hear of USCG and LEO's boarding vessels for 'safety inspections' and searches w/o the requisite warrants.
Come on, legal seadogs, enlighten the landlubber!!

Article [IV]

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Title 14 section 89 of the United States Code authorizes the U.S. Coast Guard to board vessels subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, anytime, any place upon the high seas and upon any waterway over which the United States has jurisdiction, to make inquires, examinations, inspections, searches, seizures, and arrests. The U.S. Coast Guard does not require a warrant to conduct search, seizures, arrests over any United States Waterway or high seas. The U.S. Coast Guard also have full legal law enforcement power on any land under the control of the United States, as needed to complete any mission.
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Old 22-06-2013, 23:54   #3
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pirate Re: Legal Stuff

The basic fact is... the USA reserves the right to board any vessel anywhere it deems fit regardless of Constitutional or any other persons rights any where in the world it deems fit... whether you like it or not.. if you resist then force WILL be applied...
And thems the facts... like it or lump it..
That's the perks of being self appointed World Sheriff...
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Old 23-06-2013, 03:04   #4
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Re: Legal Stuff

tle 14 section 89 of the United States Code authorizes the U.S. Coast Guard to board vessels subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, anytime, any place upon the high seas and upon any waterway over which the United States has jurisdiction, to make inquires, examinations, inspections, searches, seizures, and arrests. The U.S. Coast Guard does not require a warrant to conduct search, seizures, arrests over any United States Waterway or high seas. The U.S. Coast Guard also have full legal law enforcement power on any land under the control of the United States, as needed to complete any mission. __________________

That's a bit scary, in as it includes vast portions of land AND waterways. They just threw the rulebook under the bus. And, since Constitutionally, only a Navy is continually funded (which would include the Marines) without the Pres begging Congress for money ( every 2 years), the Navy is assigned as the bastion against invasion of the borders. To have CG on the rivers and lakes in a military stance is quite unnerving. It completely circumvents the founding document that defines(d) our Republic.
Has anyone ever questioned this in a major court?

Not that it would do any good in the current political environment....it seems they just do what they want, and make new rules as needed.
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Old 23-06-2013, 04:24   #5
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Re: Legal Stuff

The US Constitution has been irrelevant since the Bush Coup of '74.
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Old 23-06-2013, 04:59   #6
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The War of 1812 was fought to insure that maritime commerce and sailors within US waters are protected and regulated by the US. In order to make it so, the right to board and seize shipping was vested in the US Navy. When US Marines went into Mexico after Pancho Villa, a court battle insued. The result of that dispute is now known as Posse Comitatas. That rule holds that the US military services are NOT to be used for, by or as law enforcement (except under very particular circumstances that I can't fully recall as I lay here in the berth listening to the rain). Anyway, that's why USCG does not belong to DoD. USCG is the sole federal maritime law enforcement agency. They have inherited the rights made necessary by Washington DC in 1812 designed to protect US shipping from boarding and seizure by foreigners.

The Constitution is often overridden by the necessities of war. The thing is, those overrides sometimes tend to be permanent.
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Old 23-06-2013, 05:23   #7
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Re: Legal Stuff

this is all another reason we are leaving America, to not return. disgusting. 2081 (film) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 23-06-2013, 05:53   #8
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Before anyone corrects my erroneous explanation of the genesis of the Posse Comitatas Act (PCA), please allow me to correct it. PCA originated as a deal with southerners during reconstruction in order to break a deadlock over the election of R.B.Hayes who lost the popular vote but won the electoral vote. The effect of PCA is as I described it previously. The Pancho Villa affair (Army not Marines) is an example of how PCA sometimes gets ignored. Mea Culpa for posting fractured history. I'm getting old.
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Old 23-06-2013, 05:56   #9
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Re: Legal Stuff

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The US Constitution has been irrelevant since the Bush Coup of '74.

Bush Coup of '74 ?


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Que ?
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Old 23-06-2013, 07:04   #10
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Re: Legal Stuff

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The US Constitution has been irrelevant since the Bush Coup of '74.
It is interesting that our friends on the other side of the pond portend to know more about the subject. Perhaps articulation is in order.
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Old 23-06-2013, 07:07   #11
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Re: Legal Stuff

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Before anyone corrects my erroneous explanation of the genesis of the Posse Comitatas Act (PCA), please allow me to correct it. PCA originated as a deal with southerners during reconstruction in order to break a deadlock over the election of R.B.Hayes who lost the popular vote but won the electoral vote. The effect of PCA is as I described it previously. The Pancho Villa affair (Army not Marines) is an example of how PCA sometimes gets ignored. Mea Culpa for posting fractured history. I'm getting old.
I give you bonus points for even knowing the history. You're doing far better than the majority of the citizens. And that is an unfortunate and sad thing to admit.
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Old 23-06-2013, 07:13   #12
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Re: Legal Stuff

I always find it interesting when someone brings up the Constitution in connection with vessel inspections by the US Coast Guard, like they just solved the great conspiracy...

None of us, our parents or our grandparents were even alive when all this started and complaining about it now is silly.

If you don't like the rules... Then move out of the USA or sell your boat!

Of course if you chose to move out, other countries will also search your boat and may not be as polite about it as the USCG.
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Old 23-06-2013, 07:42   #13
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Re: Legal Stuff

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I always find it interesting when someone brings up the Constitution in connection with vessel inspections by the US Coast Guard, like they just solved the great conspiracy...

None of us, our parents or our grandparents were even alive when all this started and complaining about it now is silly.

If you don't like the rules... Then move out of the USA or sell your boat!

Of course if you chose to move out, other countries will also search your boat and may not be as polite about it as the USCG.
Righteous, brother. But know your history, know your rights. FYI: your rights are not found on Google or YouTube.
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Old 23-06-2013, 09:55   #14
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Re: Legal Stuff

Did someone say Righteous brothers ?

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Old 23-06-2013, 10:20   #15
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Re: Legal Stuff

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Righteous, brother. But know your history, know your rights. FYI: your rights are not found on Google or YouTube.
Your rights to bear arms stop at the territorial waters of the USA... Good luck trying to explain to a foreign government why you shot one of their citizens, because he walked onto your boat!
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