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Old 11-04-2009, 05:02   #16
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Seems to me a classic case of negligence. As an Engineer, I am well aware of the legal ramifications of design and construction work. The expectation is that construction will meet 'good practice', and this is why there are standards. If manufactures and designers meet the requirements of the applicable standards, then, they are protected from charges of negligence. There may not be specific standards on keel construction, but there are certainly applicable Australian welding codes that need to be followed in fabricating keels along with any other steel fabrication. In my view the well run and professional shops have little to fear from this ruling.
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Old 11-04-2009, 05:22   #17
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Indeed. Tort law is always a tough call though. To produce the best outcomes for the consumers the law has to balance conflicting incentives. On one hand you need a strong disincentive for shoddy work, but on the other you don't want to micromanage because you can drive the industry out of business or at least out of a competetive price range.

Our healthcare industry is a classic example. Sure there probably won't be very many bad drugs getting through, but now it takes about a decade and 20-30 million dollars worth of testing to get a new drug to market. The consumer pays through the nose for that safety.

Any tort law situation has similar things to balance and getting it perfect is unlikely
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Old 11-04-2009, 08:57   #18
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The available reports seem conflicting but wasn't only one side of the keel cut and re-welded to take out some woof , by an unknown employee, after-hours to hide a mistake.

Didn't the child like welding refer to the weld penetration. The resultant join was polished back.

Aren't lot of high aspect bulb keels fitted into a cassette or a case for easy removal for repairs/mods/transport etc.
From what I have seen at a local yard that gets a lot of large racers with high aspect keels...yes indeed.
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Old 10-07-2009, 02:31   #19
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Jailed!!!!!!!!

Full article as its important. From The Sydney Morning Herald
Builder of yacht that broke up jailed

A boat builder found guilty of manslaughter after a yacht broke up at sea has been sentenced to three years' jail.

Judge Stephen Norrish has ordered Alex Cittadini, the director and engineer at Applied Alloy Yachts, to serve a non-parole period of 18 months.

"The degree of negligence was serious," he said.
"As the manager of the business he was under a duty [to provide] proper quality control."

Four crew members, Tracy Luke, 32, Ann Maree Pope, 30, Christopher Hayes and Peter McLeod, both 51, died after the keel of the yacht Excalibur split in two and the boat capsized.

The 15-metre racing sloop was hit by winds of up to 50 knots near Seal Rock off the Mid North Coast in September 2002, on a voyage from the Whitsundays to Sydney.

Two of its sailors, skipper Brian McDermott and crew mate John Rogers, were rescued after spending nine hours in the water.
Judge Norrish on Friday described their story of survival as chilling and awe-inspiring.

The Downing Centre District Court heard Cittadini was unaware the million-dollar yacht had its keel cut and rewelded because it was covered by polish and not visible to the trained or untrained eye.
"There's no suggestion he did the welding," Judge Norris said.
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Old 17-07-2009, 20:54   #20
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Having worked as a welder in many different fields especially structural. I found many companies that would try to make the welder cut corners and speed production. I have had fights with foreman who turned up the amps on my welder trying to make me weld faster, foremen who told me to just weld stringers instead of weaving the weld bead and even too weld weave a larger bead then the rod or wire size allowed. Prices are high and many companies (Not Most but a growing number) will try anything to cut production cost and increase profits. On my last job I ended up calling the US Navy because my employer was putting my intials and weld number on welds completed by non-certified welders.
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Old 17-07-2009, 21:10   #21
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They are sending a message...and it is a good one.....

"You will be made to stand behind your work!"
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Old 08-02-2010, 03:52   #22
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All over - appeal upheld.
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Old 08-02-2010, 04:36   #23
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Don't expect me, or anyone else, to work on your boat in Australia if this doesn't get reversed on appeal.
Read careful: the accident was caused by piss poor workmanship. I don't mind someone has to answer to that. Keels should be one of the last parts on a boat to ever break or fail. (period)
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Old 08-02-2010, 05:02   #24
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I agree it was poor workmanship, but to pick out someone as a scapegoat who knew nothing about it and throw him in jail for 3 years is a bit over the top.

Where you work, do you feel that responsible for the actions of your employees??
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Old 08-02-2010, 05:09   #25
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I agree it was poor workmanship, but to pick out someone as a scapegoat who knew nothing about it and throw him in jail for 3 years is a bit over the top.

Where you work, do you feel that responsible for the actions of your employees??
if i was in charge and oked the action then YES
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Old 08-02-2010, 05:21   #26
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I agree it was poor workmanship, but to pick out someone as a scapegoat who knew nothing about it and throw him in jail for 3 years is a bit over the top.

Where you work, do you feel that responsible for the actions of your employees??
Yes I would; to a point. Even the Toyota CEO feels responsible ans will spend 'some' money to correct an issue. Toyota can demonstrate they have control and make an effort to avoid accidents; we have to accept that the unexpected can still happen. 'Childlike' welds failing is not to be unexpected.

This yacht was a one off (in fact compared to cars all yachts over 30 ft. are more or less one offs) and as a manager you should know what happens with critical parts. 'Tack welding' a keel en spending more time making it look nice is simply 'not done'.
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Old 08-02-2010, 05:54   #27
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I don't mind someone has to answer to that.
Yes but it has to be the right person or persons. Not just a quick fix. The Court finding seems to be as poor than the weld, if it was really the weld at fault, both a shoody job.
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Old 08-02-2010, 05:57   #28
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Forensic examination of the keel after recovery of Excalibur found that the keel had been cut and re-welded. The welding was defective and eventually failed causing the keel to detach from the boat, which resulted on the boat capsizing within 30 seconds.[3] Manslaughter charges were brought against Adrian Presland and Alex Cittadini who both worked for Applied Alloy Yachts, who built Excalibur. Adrian Presland, the welder in charge of the keel of Excalibur, was acquitted. Alex Cittadini, a director of Applied Alloy Yachts,[3] was convicted on four counts of manslaughter in April 2009. [2] On 10 July 2009 he was sentenced to 3 years jail with a non parole period of 18 months. The convictions were overturned by the NSW Court of Criminal Appeal on 18 December 2009. The court found that the jury's verdict was unreasonable, and an acquittal was directed.[5]

Wikipedea, but footnoted
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Old 08-02-2010, 06:07   #29
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'Childlike' welds failing is not to be unexpected.
"Child like weld" was a very poor choice of word and show the quality of the inquest. As fare that I know we do not have child labour in Australia and I would be hard press to find a weld made by a child for comparison with the keel failed weld.
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Old 08-02-2010, 06:27   #30
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Looks to me like the welder was aquitted and the whole thing thrown out anyway. Media sensation.
imho, welding together thick stainless after being cut, without gussets and stress relief-not the best idea. But still much missing from the story. Who ordered it cut and welded bak? If the welder was originally let off and the owner originally convicted, then the whole thing thrown out, we aren't privilaged to the facts yet.
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