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Old 01-02-2014, 17:15   #46
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

No mate the real issue is not COAL its our STANDARD OF LIVING.

By that i mean both real and economic ie we need to pay for our medicare, our wonderful social welfare net etc but not at the expense of the environment or our way of life.

If you cared to get informed about this issue you would see that the delicate balancing act has again been achieved here. The planning process to 5 years to ensure the environment would be protected.

Far easier to read a headline and pretend you know it all though eh?

Far to much of this in our world these days...
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Old 01-02-2014, 17:22   #47
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

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Naah... can't be bothered mate...
I'll leave that to the Aussies who actually use the frickin beach and surf to do that...
Seems like they've a fair bit of protest activity going on..
Yep good on ya. I surf most days here and its always in the back of your mind - is today the day a great white bites me or a mate in half???

Dont need ricky gervais et al telling me from is LA mansion to leave the sharks alone. Noisy minority of 6000 at a beach protest and the media would have you believe the world is against us protecting ourselves.
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Old 01-02-2014, 17:24   #48
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

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I am not a pub fighter !!!
Me neither. But I have had a few drunken punches swung at me and returned the favor. Back in the 80s and 90s it was just part of working in the outback.

The pub was the "office", where we networked, found jobs, had some good times and some stupid rough and tumble times. Too much beer. Too many Bundies. For my son's sake, I am happy that is a fast disappearing part of Australian culture.

But our politics is still rough and rumble. Our people are opinionated even on things they don't know anything about. That's all good in my opinion.

Let me lay it on the table. I think the current government values the mining buck over the environment. The previous government did so too. It comes down to fast $$$. That's not something I think is good for Australia or our environment long term.



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Old 01-02-2014, 18:20   #49
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

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I think the current government values the mining buck over the environment. The previous government did so too. It comes down to fast $$$. That's not something I think is good for Australia or our environment long term.
Could the ultimate approval of dredging be in any way related to PM Tony Abbott attempting to bring Coal magnate Clive Palmer, leader of Palmer United Party, on side?

Abott's LNP party has been behind continued coal mining and coal-based energy production. Previous LNP Howard tried to sell us 'coal sequestration' technology - a form carbon 'vapour ware.' The values in play are very clear.

Also, there were two flavours to the previous Labor government. The coup plot by Gillard and her faceless men was largely a result of backlash against Rudd's proposed super-profits tax on mining to help pay for Australia spending to avoad the GFC. Under Gillard that tax was largely rolled back and, paradoxically, the industry announced the end of the boom and even those mining taxes still expected didn't go into the stat's coffers. The sudden 40 billion deficit was the death knell to Labor's re-election - lead by Rudd in a last ditch attempt to secure the majority.

Funny how tens of billions are again being invested in expanding iron ore industry here in the west... the boom is back?

Politics aside, Australia is an entire continent that still has a chance to preserve its ecological integrity if there is reasonable and fair political will to do so. Other than Antarctica, is there another continent where the same can be said? I think most Australians are proud to have been been such good land stewards so far and I think there is will to find the balance.

Sadly politicians will play all those doing the whingeing to their own advantage without solving the problems in the end. Solving a political problem usually marks the end of any power leverage a politician can apply. Said solving is the last thing the poly wants to actually accomplish. Perhaps best to cull the sharks in Canberra?
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Old 01-02-2014, 19:24   #50
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

One political system that impressed me and I think could work in Australia is the local "Referendum System"

Registered voters are asked to vote on specific issues passed by their elected leaders if it has a large number against it.

If it fails by a large margin automatic election is called to replace those leaders.....
Works in Holland to make elected officials more accountable to what they try and push through.


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Old 01-02-2014, 20:55   #51
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

The Title is very misleading , the dump area is in a marine park titled as "the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park" For those that don't know much about Australia and Queensland i suggest you look at some marine Park Maps of Queensland, there are not many parts of our coastline that are not covered by these parks, Our fishing industry both commercial and recreational are severely effected by these, they were introduced by government in an effort to protect our coastline, one government that we have (labour) that if in power long enough does well for the Aussies in that they introduce many things that protect us all Marine parks,Medicare etc, we normally throw them out after a couple of terms because to implement these changes it costs money and they don't manage it well, then we have a liberal govt they usually spend most of their time telling us how labour sent us broke, then as a result cutting out most of the things labour put into place and getting all of the top end of town happy.

Labor approved of this work but not moving the sea bed to another point in the sea, they wanted it on to land but that was costly, the big miners have won again by telling us that the boom was finished , we get rid of labour they then get exactly what they want for a few years until labour gets back in to power,Just check our history over the last 30 years.

Unfortunately these projects get approved and thats life not many like it but the reef is not being "top dressed" as the media puts it.

As for those of you wanting to leave and go elsewhere, most of us would not want to hold you back,go but do it quickly we hate whinging, if you don't like what is happening stand up and be counted put your name on a ballot box let us vote and see if we agree with you.

As for the rest of the world when you talk about our government your talking about us Aussies we vote for the governments we have, we don't like to be told we got it wrong (we normally sort that out in a pub)
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Old 01-02-2014, 22:23   #52
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

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WOW makes you wonder what happened to the good old Aussie and that "give em a go " attitude ??? ....... Cheers Jacko
Please correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the Aussie "give em a go" or more correctly "give em a fair go" usually directed towards "the little bloke" or the "battler" rather than really big business / government at the top end of town.

I'm in ShaneD's camp here, poor government of either persuasion is fair game for loud and robust comment.

Heck, we were founded on such principles; refer to the armed take-over of the Aussie government on 26 January 1808 just 20 years after the arrival of the first fleet. OK, it wasn't about the GBR or environmental issues but it was about perceived poor leadership.
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Old 01-02-2014, 22:39   #53
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

I like your analysis alcmck.
sort of like the individual children's relationship with dysfunctional parents...and their own siblings.

However be Careful not to be too protective of your Gov from outsiders though.

Would hate to see my favorite nationals loose their sense of humor and be considered "Americans in Training"

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Old 01-02-2014, 22:59   #54
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

Just because we're kept spinning in 30 year cycles doesn't mean that it's good or necessary to continue doing so.

With the Australian dollar settling at around $0.90 US I can't help but think the government ought to be undertaking new tourism initiatives. External perception as caretaker of our oceanic heritage as well as being a kindhearted and welcoming people goes a long way. Australia is now a member of the UN security council and has global influence far beyond its economic and population size. It's a shame if we can't take that opportunity to promote our common historic values at home and abroad.

Politicians will always drive wedges through perceived divisions. I for one don't oppose mining and resource development when done with adequate environmental planning and reclaiming. I don't believe in 'leaving it in the ground' just for its own sake. Still there are considerations of protecting environmental and cultural treasures that are of equal or greater worth in some cases, as is the case with the Great Barrier Reef, Paleoglyphic rock-art of the Kimberbly, and other unique experiences that are of value to cruisers and to our tourism industry.

Australia has so much low carbon LNG fuel resources (mostly exported) for mains power, as well as solar and hydro top up, it is hard to see why anyone thinks coal based generation is necessary unless it is because of the political ties. I can see the details of the stars and nebulae at night in crystal clear skies and we still have abundant fish sans mercury. The value of these things might not be realised until they are gone?
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Old 01-02-2014, 23:15   #55
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

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Could the ultimate approval of dredging be in any way related to PM Tony Abbott attempting to bring Coal magnate Clive Palmer, leader of Palmer United Party, on side?

Abott's LNP party has been behind continued coal mining and coal-based energy production. Previous LNP Howard tried to sell us 'coal sequestration' technology - a form carbon 'vapour ware.' The values in play are very clear.
Nice conspiracy but dead wrong mate. The abbot point extension has been on the cards with both state and federal governments and both labour and LNP at both levels for 12 years that i personally know of. The latest round of approvals started under the QLD and federal Labor governments and its just so happened that due diligence has finished on the LNP's watch.

The bottlenecks to ship our dirt out (both coal and ore) have been largely ports and rail. The irony is as you say the approvals are coming after the boom slows down (its not over not by a long shot) and thats largely due to lengthy approvals processes including environmental.

And as for Clive Palmer hes yesterdays news mate - not even a billionaire anymore and once he does his doh in the nor west thatll be the end of him. (but i will give you this - he did get his first $50M with the help of his ol mate Joh and some dodgy land releases in the QLD Inc days)
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Old 02-02-2014, 00:50   #56
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

whilst i dont want to derail this thread as i dont fully know all the facts but one thing that is disturbing is the Shark cull in WA if any one or thing is to be culled is the politicians or those in authority who make these decisions ok there has been 7 fatalities since 2010 but what is the reason for these are we plundering the fish stocks that in turn makes these sharks look for alternative food source i hope all the people of WA and Oz rally around and stop this barbaric senseless culling
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Old 02-02-2014, 01:39   #57
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

A bit disturbing that future world consumption of coal is determined to be increasing. Personally I blame the GFC, heres how: The europeans in particular were making the right noises and being heard in there desire to put limitation on future green house gas emissions, even the Aussies and USA had got on board then suddenly GFC took the priority somewhere else, and now the climate change deniers are hitting home runs. We had a chance for action and we blew it.
Depleted shark population, corals, polar bear extinction, endangered tigers in Summatra all regarded by big business (now others) as small stuff. We are the frog in a slowly heated saucepan, that fails to make a decision.

Nobody should be surprised. Sorry for thread drift.
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Old 02-02-2014, 18:06   #58
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

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whilst i dont want to derail this thread as i dont fully know all the facts but one thing that is disturbing is the Shark cull in WA if any one or thing is to be culled is the politicians or those in authority who make these decisions ok there has been 7 fatalities since 2010 but what is the reason for these are we plundering the fish stocks that in turn makes these sharks look for alternative food source i hope all the people of WA and Oz rally around and stop this barbaric senseless culling
Like you say you dont know but by all means feel entitled to tell us not to protect oursleves here in WA mate!

The theory we are working on is the great whites that have been protected are growing to full size of 5 odd meters and from around 4m they stop eating fish and start eating seals. A surfer in a wetsuit looks like a seal you see and the trouble is at 5m a "test bite" involves biting a human in half (in 5 of the fatalities that was the case others just lost a leg and bled out).

Basically there are alot more man eater size sharks around than 10 years ago and its starting to show in the attacks and sightings. Nothing to do with starving poor sharks like you try and ascertain.

We are entitled to safe use of our waters and attempting to keep a few popular beaches free of large sharks is not a "cull". They are free to roam 99% of our coastline. we just want to keep them away from high population swimming areas. Setting drum lines and nets are done elsewhere there is a shark problem and they are not a "cull".

The use of the word "cull" is just more sensationist media crap like the abbot point reporting and you fell for it.
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Old 02-02-2014, 18:11   #59
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

I think those Abalone divers have to be the craziest or bravest fishermen I can think of.
Not sure which
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Old 02-02-2014, 18:15   #60
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

Yep fully agree there. At least they see the shark coming (last diver taken was in the sharks mouth head first and somehow lived to tell the tale) Surfers and swimmers not so lucky as the gw's tend to attack from below in a "launch" above the water. Farkin scary.
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