Transitioning to Liveaboard -- Younger Person Seeking Your Advice

[aManAndHisDog]

Hello, first post here but I've been reading around for a while.

I'm 27, a senior software engineer, pushing hard in my career, and doing the whole 'get ahead' thing. I bought and sold my first home, and have recently purchased my second home back in my hometown in Southern CA. I've made some decent gains in the real estate market -- nothing crazy -- but enough to have a little egg to work with. I think I'm doing OK for my age, but I don't think I'm actually learning how to live life. Too afraid of failure (my dad was successful and I feel some sort of unwarranted pressure).

I'm finding myself starting to burn out of this life. My job is stressful. Girls don't want to date a dude who has to bring his laptop everywhere because he's on call. I pay an arm and a leg to have my home here in paradise.

In my free time I surf or wish I was surfing (grew up surfing, it's a passion and medication for depression and anxiety). I find myself wandering the local harbor with my dog, staring at all the yachts and wishing I was on them! Seeing them anchored at my local surf spot strikes me with envy! I love the ocean, it's my home, and I cherish it.

A couple years ago the idea of a live aboard crept into my mind -- it started with those over glorified YouTube videos but was sustained by a thirst for knowledge and understanding of sailing (ocean conditions, rigging, etc). My friend and I share an 18' Prindle that I've taken out a few times and had a blast, but it's not the kind of sailing I (think) I want (it's pretty uncomfortable sitting on a wet trampoline for hours). I want to sail somewhere, anchor, and explore. Or just sit in the boat and read a book -- either way. I'm dying to see the Channel Islands and sail to Catalina on my own boat. I don't want to spend hours morning and night rigging and derigging our little toy, trailering it around, and being very limited on what we do with it (referencing the Prindle).

I don't think I would do this liveaboard thing my whole life -- maybe just a year or a few years -- who knows?

The idea is I would find a way to afford the boat (HE loan and rent out house, sell house and use some of the equity for a cash deal, other forms of leverage), buy said boat, and continue my career working in a marina for a year or so while sailing on weekends and learning what the $#*$ I'm doing. Maybe doing weekend projects getting things fixed on the boat (I'm mechanically inclined and like a challenge). This way I can get my feet wet without letting go of my career, and defer the most difficult decision (career moves) while still getting to try this whole thing out.

Depending on scenarios, I would be able to spend 75-150k on a boat and still have the cash flow necessary for a pricy SoCal slip and monthly maintenance costs (according to rough initial research). From my research, this will land me something reasonable that won't require a massive refit from the get go. I'm talking a 38-42' production cruiser, not a high end blue water boat. Open ocean is not my goal as far as I can tell right now.

I realize this is a lengthy personal post and I thank you for reading it. My point in typing all this out is to get your perspective. I'm about a year out from making any decisions around this but if there's anything I've learned, financial planning, sailing lessons, and research will probably take over a year! I'm young but I've learned the value in listening to elders.

So I'm asking: In your opinion, am I throwing my life away doing something like this at my age? Am I completely off base here? Is the idea of a liveaboard even a possibility in SoCal (I researched and there are harbors that allow it)?

[Joh.Ghurt]

Not throwing away your life, but you should careful about your decisions. They have real consequences and not all of them are nice.

One of the things to consider is what kind of benefits are you giving up by moving onto a boat. Most people don't live on a boat because it's very annoying and restricting in large parts.

Lastly, a guy on a boat with his laptop all the time isn't more attractive than one with a nice house. You won't solve this problem by getting a boat.

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, aMan.

[Adelie]

Welcome.

[aManAndHisDog]

Originally Posted by Joh.Ghurt

Not throwing away your life, but you should careful about your decisions. They have real consequences and not all of them are nice.

One of the things to consider is what kind of benefits are you giving up by moving onto a boat. Most people don't live on a boat because it's very annoying and restricting in large parts.

Lastly, a guy on a boat with his laptop all the time isn't more attractive than one with a nice house. You won't solve this problem by getting a boat.

Yeah, nothing can help me on that last one. Whoops.

I’ve been thinking about benefits that I would lose. For me that would mainly be my saltwater aquarium hobby and some expensive guitars that I don’t want close to the water. As a single dude my fridge and cabinets are already rather empty in terms of food... and barely use kitchen appliances except the grill. I think this is one of the appeals to me — to be forced shed some of the excess hobbies and spending and move back to the basics so I’m not continually distracting myself vs growing as a person.

It’s the life decision part that I’m so hung up on because traditional wisdom says *not* to do something like this. Im also concerned about how possible this even is in SoCal so hopefully some Californians can chime in on that one.

[wolfgal]

great post!

life is about hard choices, yes, but, from my experience, the choices we must make progressively become more difficult as we get tied into the wheels of life. in this case, making a choice like this one is really tough once you are married, have kids, tuition to pay, grass to cut and a pool to clean...

imagine yourself at that point (say 35 years old) and look back at this moment and ask yourself, "will i regret not trying the liveaboard thing?"

if you get a twinge, i suggest you give this particular hard choice more attention

and there is a good reason: regrets are huge-hole-eating-memories that tunnel their way through our souls as we get older. they are the things that are recalled (in deep sadness) during our last hours. lost opportunities are lost forever, really.

and as far as girls go. finding a female who loves sailing and boats is not all that easy, granted. but most of my female-sailor-friends are of the tomboy sort and can be rather mechanically inclined themselves...

good luck!

wolfie

[thomm225]

Why don't you buy a boat for $5,000 to $25,000 and see how you like it?

Don't waste a ton of money on a sailboat that you might not even enjoy.

And be careful with the opinions you get on a cruisers/liveaboard forum.

Some of these guys are liveaboards and hang out at the dock just waiting for someone to talk to.

It can be a bit strange.......

Also learning to sail is important also.

[EarlWer]

What he said ^^^^
If I want thrills, I can take out my beach cat and fly a hull.

Now, I've bought a much cheaper boat ( $6K ), doing some upgrades (because I like to tinker) and will try living-aboard this summer. If it works out, I can take it (almost) anywhere.

So, instead of spending lots of $$$ for your 'ideal' boat, find something much cheaper that you can try out for a while...

[richard_wb]

My first sailboat was 28 feet. Small enough to easily sail by myself, and big enough to take a couple of friends on overnight trips. Something used, around that size, will allow you to see if you really like spending several days/nights aboard, and you won't have to sell your house. Eventually you'll know whether you want/should make the move to a bigger, more expensive boat. I ended up sailing across the Pacific Ocean, but that was never a long-term goal when I bought my first boat...it just kind of happened after several years of building skills and experience, and learning what kind of boat I ultimately wanted.

[aManAndHisDog]

Thank you all for your input.

@wolfgal thank you for the sage words -- I already have regrets from not doing certain things earlier in my life. I definitely get a twinge; I have time to figure this all out but I'm reassured in my thinking.

With regards to the budget, here's how I'm thinking about this problem:

I will be buying a used boat. As I understand, it will not take the depreciation buying a new boat would (ie driving a new car off the lot). Of course it's still a money pit I understand, but ultimately, assuming stable market conditions, I should be able to recoup some of that investment a year down the road (or two or whatever) should I want to get out. More research here is obviously needed. The question is, is the annual depreciation equal to or less than what my normal living expenses are (mortgage, HOA, property tax, etc)? This equation would of course change if I decide to rent my house out vs sell, go through with renovations I'm considering, or whatever other options / scenarios I have. But that is my thinking on the matter.

The boat needs to be new enough that I'm not consumed by working on it. I'm happy to do projects and learn, but it cannot be something that consumes me because I'll still have my career at this time and I also value my weekend time to at least be able to squeeze some surfing in. That's also valuable time I can use to get out on some easy sails and learn how everything works vs spending months prepping a lower cost boat.

It also needs to be big enough and comfortable enough that I can do my job (sitting on a laptop for 8-14 hours a day) and not burn out of the living space.

Based on these constraints I went down the avenue of a more modern 38-42' owner's version production boat, which commands the aforementioned budget.

Now that's just my reasoning and I'm certainly open to everyone's opinions here -- not trying to argue, just trying to get to the bottom of whether or not alternative options are viable given my constraints.

I'm also trying to understand if buying a cheaper boat and moving to a more expensive boat would cost more in the long run, and what that cost would be compared to any risk / exposure associated with buying a more expensive boat from the start. Really all fingers point towards 'make sure you get a deal', as with any purchase in life

[aManAndHisDog]

Originally Posted by richard_wb

My first sailboat was 28 feet. Small enough to easily sail by myself, and big enough to take a couple of friends on overnight trips. Something used, around that size, will allow you to see if you really like spending several days/nights aboard, and you won't have to sell your house. Eventually you'll know whether you want/should make the move to a bigger, more expensive boat. I ended up sailing across the Pacific Ocean, but that was never a long-term goal when I bought my first boat...it just kind of happened after several years of building skills and experience, and learning what kind of boat I ultimately wanted.

Sailing across the ocean in a 28ft boat sounds scary to me. I've seen some people sail to Hawaii solo on boats of that length. You have my respect! Are you based in CA?

[SeaStory]

I would look at smaller boats, like the mid 30's, to achieve your price range with fewer projects. However, there will be projects. Will you take the time to learn to address them or will you hire someone to take care of them for you?

How often do you have to go into the office? How far is the nearest marina that allows liveaboards? We lived aboard for four years until my husband got sick of his commute. Now we are renting a condo across from his tech campus until we can move back again (next year, if all goes as planned!). But we kept the boat and head out to Catalina or up the coast a couple of times a year.

Living on a boat is a funny social situation. Half the world thinks you are practically homeless and the other half thinks you are living the dream. Even people who enjoy going out sailing with us think it is an odd living arrangement, sometimes.

If you haven't already, consider looking into the FIRE community for ideas on budgeting and alternative lifestyles. Even if you choose to work until you are 70, you will have a better idea of what your options are.

[aManAndHisDog]

Originally Posted by SeaStory

I would look at smaller boats, like the mid 30's, to achieve your price range with fewer projects. However, there will be projects. Will you take the time to learn to address them or will you hire someone to take care of them for you?

How often do you have to go into the office? How far is the nearest marina that allows liveaboards? We lived aboard for four years until my husband got sick of his commute. Now we are renting a condo across from his tech campus until we can move back again (next year, if all goes as planned!). But we kept the boat and head out to Catalina or up the coast a couple of times a year.

Living on a boat is a funny social situation. Half the world thinks you are practically homeless and the other half thinks you are living the dream. Even people who enjoy going out sailing with us think it is an odd living arrangement, sometimes.

If you haven't already, consider looking into the FIRE community for ideas on budgeting and alternative lifestyles. Even if you choose to work until you are 70, you will have a better idea of what your options are.

I can work 100% remotely, but plan on going in maybe 1-2 days per week when COVID is over (this is a loose requirement; more for interaction with the team). The office is an easy drive from two different harbors, both that have live aboard options (as far as I can tell), but only one with true availability (Newport Harbor). Not cheap, but that's how it goes right now. If I could afford a boat and my home I would probably just do that, but even then I'd want to explore the idea of life in a simpler way. I could move somewhere else and easily pull this off but I love SoCal; it's my home base.

Thank you for suggesting FIRE; I had no idea what that was until now. I'm going to learn about that tonight -- fantastic suggestion.

As far as projects -- I will tackle as many as I can head on. Certain things out of my wheelhouse I will pay for a professional (especially safety-oriented concerns) but I am up to attack or attempt most, if not all, of the projects on the boat.

I forgot to add:

I'm 6'2.

Can I fit in a 30' boat? I was nervous I wasn't even going to fit in a bigger boat.

[SeaStory]

Originally Posted by aManAndHisDog

I forgot to add:

I'm 6'2.

Can I fit in a 30' boat? I was nervous I wasn't even going to fit in a bigger boat.

I said mid 30's and there you might find the same headroom as low 40's. For instance, the Pearson 36 and Pearson 39 have the same headroom, as well as sharing other qualities. I have friends who are 6'4 who have had 36' boats. It really does take getting onboard. And try to get them to let you stretch out on the berth - some are great for taller folks and some would have me scrunched up! It never ceases to amaze me that a boat will have 6'6 of headroom, but no berth over 6'!

[aManAndHisDog]

Originally Posted by SeaStory

I said mid 30's and there you might find the same headroom as low 40's. For instance, the Pearson 36 and Pearson 39 have the same headroom, as well as sharing other qualities. I have friends who are 6'4 who have had 36' boats. It really does take getting onboard. And try to get them to let you stretch out on the berth - some are great for taller folks and some would have me scrunched up! It never ceases to amaze me that a boat will have 6'6 of headroom, but no berth over 6'!

Thank you for this info!! It is relieving to hear. I will research those models.

I never even thought about the berths -- I kind of assumed they were all at least a 'full' (I need at least a full XL).

I plan to look at boats soon to start understanding what I'd potentially need in terms of space and arrangement.

Do you (or anyone else) have suggestions on how to start that process? Work with a broker or contact a yacht club?

Thanks again.