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Old 24-10-2012, 17:43   #106
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Re: SHTF and boats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cacique View Post
LOL

Re Vat..........
The forestry comission sells the trees to the logging company and charges VAT.
The forestry comission claim the VAT back and sell the logs to the sawmill and charge them VAT.
The sawmill claim back the VAT and sell the wood chips to the pulp manufacturer and charge VAT.
The pulp man' claims the VAT back and sells the pulp to the paper man' and charges VAT.
The paper man' claims back the VAT and sells to the bag man' and charges VAT.
The bag man' claims back the VAT and sells the bags to the wholesaler and charges him VAT.
The whole' claims back the VAT and sells the bags to the retailer and charges him VAT.
The retailer claims the VAT Back and gives the bags away!!!
RESULT all that paperwork (Xcuse the pun) and net result Zero

More like net result the government got to hold on to all that VAT for some time, like a loan from the taxpayer.
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Old 24-10-2012, 18:22   #107
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Re: SHTF and Boats

Speaking of the Zombie Apocalypse...



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Old 25-10-2012, 02:21   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cacique
LOL

Re Vat..........
The forestry comission sells the trees to the logging company and charges VAT.
The forestry comission claim the VAT back and sell the logs to the sawmill and charge them VAT.
The sawmill claim back the VAT and sell the wood chips to the pulp manufacturer and charge VAT.
The pulp man' claims the VAT back and sells the pulp to the paper man' and charges VAT.
The paper man' claims back the VAT and sells to the bag man' and charges VAT.
The bag man' claims back the VAT and sells the bags to the wholesaler and charges him VAT.
The whole' claims back the VAT and sells the bags to the retailer and charges him VAT.
The retailer claims the VAT Back and gives the bags away!!!
RESULT all that paperwork (Xcuse the pun) and net result Zero
That's exactly what I said! Lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCSavage
Retail outlets charge VAT to the end user (if applicable)
.
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Old 25-10-2012, 03:21   #109
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Re: SHTF and boats

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Originally Posted by minaret View Post
More like net result the government got to hold on to all that VAT for some time, like a loan from the taxpayer.
And requires a small army of civil servants to administer it fullfilling their desire to ensure survival by making themselves indespensible. Once the Gov has spent the borrowed money it needs to continue to borrow ever more to pay the original loan plus interest, which goes back to an earlier comment that debt can't be repaid due to the interest.

Back to the what if senario of SHTF, a few weeks of staple foods stored on the boat would seem a good option to cover natural disaster senarios.

How long does a sack of rice keep for?

Pete
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Old 25-10-2012, 03:35   #110
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Re: SHTF and boats

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Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post
Back to the what if senario of SHTF, a few weeks of staple foods stored on the boat would seem a good option to cover natural disaster senarios.

How long does a sack of rice keep for?

Pete
years if kept in an airtight container,with a bay leaf for bugs
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Old 25-10-2012, 05:02   #111
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Re: SHTF and boats

Quote:
Originally Posted by minaret View Post
More like net result the government got to hold on to all that VAT for some time, like a loan from the taxpayer.
Not to keep harping on about VAT , but it doesnt happen that way, most companies, certainly those that want to stay around , make a profit, so each stage of the VAT transaction there is an increase in price and VAt is paid on that proportion, The seller only reports and remits the difference in VAT, Only in certain cases ( like startups ) does the purchase VAT exceed the Sales VAT, so most companies pay net VAt every VAT reporting period, ( for small companies that can be just once a year),

So for most companies , its actually the Gov giving the company a VAT cash flow benefit, since the company has the money for some time . In fact a major pain is when companies go under the Gov often looses the VAT


Also with export oriented B2B , they can apply to be zero-rated and stay outside the VAT loop etc, Most VAT is now all on-line , so its not a big paperwork issue.

Dave
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Old 25-10-2012, 05:36   #112
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Re: SHTF and Boats

Quote:
Posted at 02:23 PM ET, 10/23/2012
Sun unleashes intense X-class flare; active sunspot region rotating towards Earth
Sun unleashes intense X-class flare; active sunspot region rotating towards Earth - Capital Weather Gang - The Washington Post

Dont see how being on a boat will make much difference if a solar X class flare creates an EMP to destroy all electronics. I think if intense it will destroy even coils of wire so relays etc... wont work.

I was wondering if the solar flare hits one side of the earth facing the sun or does it last long enough or spread far over the planet to affect the dark side?

Say a disaster hits so you goto boat to do what? Where you going to get food, water fuel? And if you have it and they dont have it your a sitting duck. Millions of hungry desperate people, I assume the government will open FEMA control camps.
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Old 25-10-2012, 05:40   #113
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Re: SHTF and Boats

You all worry TOO much. x about 10

Whose sh1t ?
Squirts -or a hard coil?
What size fan?
What angle of contact with blades.
12VDC--or 125VAC
Wearing a visor-or not (you had to know it was coming!

too many possibilities.
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Old 25-10-2012, 06:10   #114
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Value added tax. Is that the government adding value with their legions of functionaries?
I like the post about taxed to be alive.
Gonna need a good supply of coffee!
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Old 25-10-2012, 06:17   #115
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Re: SHTF and Boats

Scary stuff these X Class solar flares.
I had read that 90% of people will be killed in the first year after an EMP takes out all electricity.
First to go will be those in hospitals needing constant care. Then the water and food runs out will bring on intense rioting and looting.
I imagine gangs of people going door to door taking anything they need. And dont expect the local law to help, they will be as desperate as you are. Governments will declare martial law. Pretty much anarchy everywhere until the great die off is over and the survivors calm down. Suburbs and cities are doomed, rural areas will fair better simply due to more isolation from so many millions of people.

All of this just because a freak chance occurrence from the Sun. Which can happen in the next few minutes.
Quote:
Should significant parts of the electrical power infrastructure be lost for any substantial period of time as a result of solar flare effects, the consequences are likely to be catastrophic, and many people may ultimately die for lack of the basic elements necessary to sustain life in dense urban and suburban communities.
Solar Flare Effects
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Old 25-10-2012, 06:25   #116
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Re: SHTF and Boats

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdowney717 View Post
Sun unleashes intense X-class flare; active sunspot region rotating towards Earth - Capital Weather Gang - The Washington Post

1 - Dont see how being on a boat will make much difference if a solar X class flare creates an EMP to destroy all electronics. I think if intense it will destroy even coils of wire so relays etc... wont work.

2 - I was wondering if the solar flare hits one side of the earth facing the sun or does it last long enough or spread far over the planet to affect the dark side?

3 - Say a disaster hits so you goto boat to do what? Where you going to get food, water fuel? And if you have it and they dont have it your a sitting duck. Millions of hungry desperate people, I assume the government will open FEMA control camps.
1 - Steel boat = faraday cage (not that I worry about EMP, I don't)
2 - Maybe being on the Dark Side is good for once, not sure of the answer. Probably depends upon size.
3 - We have a place in Canada, dual citizen, family connections, fuel and water enough to get there. Not millions of people, not one million, not many people at all.

I have a special situation that makes these answers easy for me. My luck. But we have also worked on it, so that our situation is conducive to flexibility and resilience.

To your point #3, you may not have a place to go to get food, water and fuel. But then again you might. Having a boat opens the door to options, if they exist. If the SHTF you will not be dealing in guarantees and solid plans. You will be dealing with possibilities and lesser of evils.

Really, would you rather spend your time in a FEMA camp (I don't worry about that either, but since you brought it up) than taking your chances someplace else? Having a prepped boat allows you the option of reconsidering at that point and adjusting as the situation fits.

But here is what I don't get. If you have a boat, a capable boat, why would you NOT prep it? It is almost the same as going for a two week cruise.
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Old 25-10-2012, 06:41   #117
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Re: SHTF and Boats

Quote:
Originally Posted by hpeer View Post
1 - Steel boat = faraday cage (not that I worry about EMP, I don't)

But here is what I don't get. If you have a boat, a capable boat, why would you NOT prep it? It is almost the same as going for a two week cruise.
Just getting to the boat could be a problem. Government agencies might have closed off access in an effort to control the flow of people in the region.

I wonder if your steel boat will keep out an EMP wave. How about say your a prepper, ready to go and think your safe. Then once your at the boat you discover your engine wont start and all your electrics shorted due to the EMP and batteries are drained for some related reason.

looking for some info found this
http://www.survivalistboards.com/sho...d.php?t=225434

Quote:
Steel is a poor choice for a Faraday cage. Normally, as used in the electronic industry, they are made with layers of brass or copper screening material. Aluminum can be used as a resonable substitute. Steel just does not conduct as well, therefore will let a lot of the current leak thru.
If steel was so good then cars trucks planes should be ok, but they all go dead with an EMP. Likely due to current leaking in thru openings. Steel encased radios go dead too.

http://www.futurescience.com/emp.html

Quote:
Today, if just one of these 500 kiloton bombs like the Mark 18 were detonated 300 miles above the central United States, the economy of the country would be essentially destroyed instantaneously. Very little of the country's electrical or electronic infrastructure would still be functional.
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Old 25-10-2012, 07:29   #118
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Re: SHTF and Boats

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdowney717 View Post
Sun unleashes intense X-class flare; active sunspot region rotating towards Earth - Capital Weather Gang - The Washington Post

Dont see how being on a boat will make much difference if a solar X class flare creates an EMP to destroy all electronics. I think if intense it will destroy even coils of wire so relays etc... wont work.

I was wondering if the solar flare hits one side of the earth facing the sun or does it last long enough or spread far over the planet to affect the dark side?

Say a disaster hits so you goto boat to do what? Where you going to get food, water fuel? And if you have it and they dont have it your a sitting duck. Millions of hungry desperate people, I assume the government will open FEMA control camps.

Thank the gods for the government.
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Old 25-10-2012, 08:10   #119
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Re: SHTF and Boats

watched several EMP videos and this one seems realistic as to why Iran must not be allowed to continue on its nuclear path.
They belive in the Imam Mahdi Islamic messiah who will only show up to aid them when perhaps they decide to destroy the US.

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Old 25-10-2012, 08:16   #120
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Re: SHTF and Boats

Theres a lot of countries , maybe all of them, that shouldn't be allowed to have nuclear weapons, Iran included.

Outside of that , I dont see what additional danger Iran is. There are many nut states with nukes.

Dave
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