SHTF and Boats

[minaret]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Theres a lot of countries , maybe all of them, that shouldn't be allowed to have nuclear weapons, Iran included.

Outside of that , I dont see what additional danger Iran is. There are many nut states with nukes.

Dave

A great many, including ours. After all, we're still the only ones who've actually nuked anyone-twice. Just to show off.

[jeanathon]

Originally Posted by minaret

A great many, including ours. After all, we're still the only ones who've actually nuked anyone-twice. Just to show off.

Just to show off???
Pardon me mods, but that statement is too ridiculous to not be challenged.
Minaret may I suggest you read up a bit on the subject, and not just the victors version of history. "Airmen " is a good one, fairly non prejudiced.

[Blue Stocking]

Originally Posted by minaret

A great many, including ours. After all, we're still the only ones who've actually nuked anyone-twice. Just to show off.

Didn't the Dresden firestorm kill more?

[jeanathon]

Originally Posted by Blue Stocking

Didn't the Dresden firestorm kill more?

At the risk of highjacking the thread. It did indeed.
Also Nipponese historians have stated that due to the " no surrender ology" of the time ending the war with nukes probably saved Japanese lives.
Not sure how this helps the shtf discussion .....

[CCBullseye]

A sailboat with a good rig and good sails and mechanical self steering system can go anywhere any time. What do you really need an engine for on a boat? What do you really need electric for on a sail boat? If you have a couple hundred pounds of grain on board and plenty of dried meat, or frozen meat and know how to dry it, and a few gallons of good oil, olive and coconut oil, then you have enough food for a year. Green can be grown and also picked off land. Do you really think the government is going to blockade the mouth of every bay and river after an EMP? Most of their equipment won't work. I think their priorities will not be stopping a few self sufficient sailboats from leaving. If one has a steel bucket, a pressure canner and access to shore with forest, and some tubing, then one can have an unlimited supply of fresh water.

Iran controls, or could control the shipping points of 60% of the world's oil shipped by ships. They can shut down most of OPEX's oil shipments. If that happens, then we are looking at $20 a gallon gasoline.

A steel boat's electrical system can not survive an EMP if the electrical system is grounded to the haul.

IMHO, any sailor who depends completely on having electrical system working on his boat 100%of the time is a fool. Paper charts are required for area being sailed on my boat. Sexton required if crossing more than 100 miles of open water. I would consider sailing from Bristol RI to Norfolk without sexton, but to me that is coastal sailing, knowing I can always turn starboard and hit land. GPS can fail, I have heard from friends, how they have lost both their built in GPS and hand held GPS. Also satellites can be turned off.

For me Prepping is a personal event thing, not just a world wide event thing. People do loose their rigs, engine, and electrical systems at sea one thousand miles from land and take 60 days to get to land or rescued. If I have food aboard for six months, then the only issue is water, with a tank load of diesel, I can rig up some type of stove burner to distill sea water. A stove burner can be made with a soup can by cutting a slot in the top and stuffing part of a cotton shirt into it full of diesel fuel, like a wick on a lamp and setting it in a steel bucket with pressure cooker full of sea water with tube on vent of cooker on top of burner in bucket. Hang the bucket by it's handle and you have system which will work in a rolling sea giving one all the fresh water needed for drinking and washing face every day for a very very long time.

Like in the above example, prepping is not about fearing the possibilities but about being prepared to meet the unexpected and thinking outside the box. After all, when most people lose their jobs, that is often a SHTF event for them.

[NYCSavage]

Originally Posted by CCBullseye

A sailboat with a good rig and good sails and mechanical self steering system can go anywhere any time. What do you really need an engine for on a boat? What do you really need electric for on a sail boat? If you have a couple hundred pounds of grain on board and plenty of dried meat, or frozen meat and know how to dry it, and a few gallons of good oil, olive and coconut oil, then you have enough food for a year. Green can be grown and also picked off land. Do you really think the government is going to blockade the mouth of every bay and river after an EMP? Most of their equipment won't work. I think their priorities will not be stopping a few self sufficient sailboats from leaving. If one has a steel bucket, a pressure canner and access to shore with forest, and some tubing, then one can have an unlimited supply of fresh water.

Iran controls, or could control the shipping points of 60% of the world's oil shipped by ships. They can shut down most of OPEX's oil shippments. If that happens, then we are looking at $20 a gallon gasoline.

A steel boat's electrical system can not survive an EMP if the electrical system is grounded to the haul.

IMHO, any sailor who depends completely on having electrical system working on his boat 100% is a fool. Paper charts are required for area being sailed on my boat. Sexton required if crossing more than 100 miles of open water. I would consider sailing from Bristol RI to Norfolk without sexton, but to me that is coastal sailing, knowing I can always turn starboard and hit land. GPS can fail, I have heard from friends how have lost both their built in GPS and hand held GPS. Also satellites can be turned off.

For me Prepping is a personal event thing, not just a world wide event thing. People do loose their rigs, engine, and electrical systems at sea one thousand miles from land and take 60 days to get to land or rescued. If I have food aboard for six months, then the only issue is water, with a tank load of diesel, I can rig up some type of stove burner to distill sea water. A stove burner can be made with a soup can by cutting a slot in the top and stuffing part of a cotton shirt into it full of diesel fuel, like a wick on a lamp and setting it in a steel bucket with pressure cooker full of sea water with tube on vent of cooker on top of burner in bucket. Hang the bucket by it's handle and you have system which will work in a rolling sea.

Like in the above example, prepping is not about fearing the possibilities but being prepared to meet the expected and thinking outside the box. After all, when most people lose their jobs, that is often a SHTF event for them.

I'm following you when the S really does HTF!!!!

[minaret]

Originally Posted by CCBullseye

A sailboat with a good rig and good sails and mechanical self steering system can go anywhere any time. What do you really need an engine for on a boat? What do you really need electric for on a sail boat? If you have a couple hundred pounds of grain on board and plenty of dried meat, or frozen meat and know how to dry it, and a few gallons of good oil, olive and coconut oil, then you have enough food for a year. Green can be grown and also picked off land. Do you really think the government is going to blockade the mouth of every bay and river after an EMP? Most of their equipment won't work. I think their priorities will not be stopping a few self sufficient sailboats from leaving. If one has a steel bucket, a pressure canner and access to shore with forest, and some tubing, then one can have an unlimited supply of fresh water.

Iran controls, or could control the shipping points of 60% of the world's oil shipped by ships. They can shut down most of OPEX's oil shipments. If that happens, then we are looking at $20 a gallon gasoline.

A steel boat's electrical system can not survive an EMP if the electrical system is grounded to the haul.

IMHO, any sailor who depends completely on having electrical system working on his boat 100%of the time is a fool. Paper charts are required for area being sailed on my boat. Sexton required if crossing more than 100 miles of open water. I would consider sailing from Bristol RI to Norfolk without sexton, but to me that is coastal sailing, knowing I can always turn starboard and hit land. GPS can fail, I have heard from friends, how they have lost both their built in GPS and hand held GPS. Also satellites can be turned off.

For me Prepping is a personal event thing, not just a world wide event thing. People do loose their rigs, engine, and electrical systems at sea one thousand miles from land and take 60 days to get to land or rescued. If I have food aboard for six months, then the only issue is water, with a tank load of diesel, I can rig up some type of stove burner to distill sea water. A stove burner can be made with a soup can by cutting a slot in the top and stuffing part of a cotton shirt into it full of diesel fuel, like a wick on a lamp and setting it in a steel bucket with pressure cooker full of sea water with tube on vent of cooker on top of burner in bucket. Hang the bucket by it's handle and you have system which will work in a rolling sea giving one all the fresh water needed for drinking and washing face every day for a very very long time.

Like in the above example, prepping is not about fearing the possibilities but about being prepared to meet the unexpected and thinking outside the box. After all, when most people lose their jobs, that is often a SHTF event for them.

Whats OPEX? And a sexton is a religious fellow. I believe you mean a sextant. I've noticed you spelling it that way a few times now. Do you know how to use one? You may want to study more if you can't spell the word. You can't look at HO249 without seeing it spelled properly...

[minaret]

Originally Posted by jeanathon

At the risk of highjacking the thread. It did indeed.
Also Nipponese historians have stated that due to the " no surrender ology" of the time ending the war with nukes probably saved Japanese lives.
Not sure how this helps the shtf discussion .....

Ending the war with A nuke may have saved lives. The second one was just to show the Russians we meant business and were willing to go there. Many historians have agreed on this. That is what I mean by "just to show off".

[hpeer]

There is no doubt that you can come up with upteen reasons or situations where a prepped sailboat is of no advantage.

I'm just praying that our SHTF event is one where it IS an advantage.

Simple really, if I prep and you don't, then I have a POTENTIAL advantage. Sometimes that is all you need.

[hpeer]

I was just reading up on EMP. Here is a good site if you are interested.

http://www.futurescience.com/emp.html

I have never much worried about it, and still don't.

If such a nefarious event were to take place then it sounds like the US would be hugely screwed, because of our dependence upon the grid and electronics.

And, after reading up, a steel boat, while not perfect, is pretty damn good protection.

That being said, I'm much more concerned about civil unrest. Perhaps because I lived through the '60's and because I live in a center city area, this is my main concern.

All that being said, there are any number of things that could happen where a boat become a safe refuge.

Not the least of which is flying sauce pans and such.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Theres a lot of countries , maybe all of them, that shouldn't be allowed to have nuclear weapons, Iran included.

Outside of that , I dont see what additional danger Iran is. There are many nut states with nukes.

Dave

If the world can live with a Nuclear Pakistan (the living definition of Islamic mental and chaos ) then can live with a Nuclear Iran (not saying it would be a great thing - but the West can live with it). Personally I think it would be a great thing for ME peace - but I am probably in a minority on that one, at least here on CF .

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by minaret

A great many, including ours. After all, we're still the only ones who've actually nuked anyone-twice. Just to show off.

IIRC the Brits dropped nukes (atomics?!) on Australia - which I think makes the Aussies pretty much unique in being the only independent country that let another one nuke it .


In regard to EMP, those of us who wear tin foil hats will of course be saying "I told you so" .

[rebel heart]

Originally Posted by CCBullseye

IMHO, any sailor who depends completely on having electrical system working on his boat 100%of the time is a fool. Paper charts are required for area being sailed on my boat. Sexton required if crossing more than 100 miles of open water.

I'm a guy with a sextant onboard who actually uses it once a day for a fix (clouds permitting). You either need a printing press for current celestial almanacs or a calculator for long term almanacs. Doing celestial nav without a calculator? Who brings their tables with them?

Math for Celestial Navigation

There are some basic "I'm headed between 300 and 330" stuff you can do (in the tropics, that stuff falls apart in the high latitudes) without the tables but that's emergency stuff, not anything resembling real route planning.

No successful sailor that I'm aware of was zero dependent on land resources. That's where the boats come from, that's where the sextant comes from, that's where the tables come from, that's where all of it comes from.

How are you going to make new chainplates or run an angle grinder with no electricity? Use a file? What happens when the file gets dull?

Make your own nylon for running rigging, or planning on growing some cotton or maybe some hemp and spinning your own fibers?

If you want to live in a compound with concertina wire and gun turrets that's all well and good, but a vessel is subject to dynamic loading and horrible conditions sometimes. They were never built to be self reliant for years at a time unless you're talking about bringing an (enslaved?) crew of carpenters and shipwrights with you.

[Cacique]

Originally Posted by atoll

years if kept in an airtight container,with a bay leaf for bugs

I didn't know bugs liked bayleafs

[CCBullseye]

Originally Posted by minaret

Whats OPEX? And a sexton is a religious fellow. I believe you mean a sextant. I've noticed you spelling it that way a few times now. Do you know how to use one? You may want to study more if you can't spell the word. You can't look at HO249 without seeing it spelled properly...

Brain fog, brain fog, brain fog. Been dealing with too many Sextons lately with Church, and have not used a sextant in several years. Been on the farm too long, time to get back to the sea. I am working on closing down the farm and have put an offer on a boat this week.

Meant OPEC. Brain fog again. Please forgive my brain fog spelling. Time for me to go "warsh" the egg off my face.