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Old 24-07-2014, 00:25   #1
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Questions of the Curious: Living Aboard and Abroad.

So, I've come to decide that the Cruising/Liveaboard lifestyle might be for me (just got back two months ago from a three week trip up and down the East Coast from the Florida Keys to Barnegat Light, New Jersey before heading back again. Great winds the entire time.)



During my experience I had a wonderful time learning lingo, burning to a crisp in the sun, and ultimately having a damned good time piloting, pulling, and learning some rigs. But I'd definitely like to gain more experience and be able to sufficiently stand my ground on a boat before making that final decision. As such I've made the choice to start saving to move down to Ft. Lauderdale, Florida and see what I can get myself into.

I'm wondering a few key things; First I'll say that the experience I had was on a 2008 MacGregor 26. As I've found while searching around is that while the size of the ship is the usual for a liveaboard/cruiser, its headroom and interior space are (supposedly?) above-par to other ships. That said, I'm curious what I should be looking for and I'll go along with my main questions

So I'll start with these:
  • What are good Cruising/Liveaboard Sailboats?
  • What should I be looking for in a Liveaboard?
  • What should I watch out for when buying?

I've heard of the Kenner Privateer, MacGregor 26, Catalina 36 (Which is what I'm aiming for at the moment, financially) Duford, Beneteau 40, and a few others I cannot recall at the moment. I've been careful so far to try and watch for electric, a solar panel set-up, an outboard motor (I cannot work in cramped spaces, would rather have the engine exposed and able to be retracted from the water), a stove, and a decent freezer.

Those are my main wants in a good liveaboard that I can tell - the ameneties such as Television, DVD, things of that nature are just a bonus. My Uncle whom I sailed with has an extra VHF radio and GPS that he's willing to give to me.


Now I'll move on to what I want to do when I get to Florida in some-odd months.

Moving Goals:
  • Close to Water (Duh! Need to see the ships!)
  • Find a Yachting Job or Dock-Job that would afford me time near and on Sailing Yachts with hopefully some outlet for further learning.
  • Find a School or Online Programme (or more books!) to further my experience for the sport and craft.
  • Bonus: Finding a friend with the same interest of living aboard.
  • Bonus: Finding a Yachting Club to pal around with that's my age. (19)

So far it hasn't been hard to find some good places to look for affordable, small living spots/apartments around Ft. Lauderdale, my only concern is how difficult it might be to find a genuinely entry-level job aboard. As far as I know I will need to take courses to be able to reliably land jobs.

I'm in relatively okay shape for my weight (roughly 300lbs) with it only taking me a week to adjust to nearly any physical job I take on. I'm no stranger to hard labor, having worked in a warehouse, on wells, and some construction work. So I suppose my only issue will be acquiring the knowledge that I need for what I want to do.

Also, to point out, the apartment is to be an extremely short-term (within a year) stepping stone from moving full-scale onto a boat, as I see it currently.

My final inquiries are more for miscellaneous but important none the less:
  • I am 'Colorblind' but I'm still able to recognize most any color. (Only having a haze between red to blue, and deep reds combined with a deep green. Otherwise yellows and oranges tend to merge.) How will this impact my ability to become an Able-Bodied Deckhand?
  • I am a people person, I like to be around people that I know. - However I am not a 'settled' kind of man. I perfer to move around often. Will my choice of nomadic style greatly impact my ability to have a job when I'm abroad? Just as well, are there often others that would jointly wish to sail abroad on a limited, if not non-existant income? (I.E. Co-owning a 40'-50' Schooner and live abroad at anchor in different places, working together to exist freely and experience the world? {Call me a romantic, I am.})
  • What is the most enchanting thing about living aboard a boat?
  • What is a good supplementary income to help support your endeavours while sailing?

As I'm well aware, my interests in life are quite romanticized as I've mentioned. In all likelihood my wait to finally purchase a boat to match my dreams will probably be in quite a few years' time but I'd love to know anything I can now to better prepare myself.

My very last question is this: How satisfied are you with a life lived outside the 'norm'?



I thank you very much for the read and I eagerly await a response. Feel free to answer only all or some, or just outright say how far out my concept of reality likely is. (Or just call me plain crazy.) I am determined and I will fulfill this newfound dream.
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Old 24-07-2014, 04:29   #2
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Re: Questions of the Curious: Living Aboard and Abroad.

at 300lbs,your first priority might be losing some weight!
not sure they build boats with hatches big enough to accomodate overweight individuals!
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Old 24-07-2014, 04:47   #3
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Re: Questions of the Curious: Living Aboard and Abroad.

that was a pretty unneeded comment!
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Old 24-07-2014, 05:06   #4
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Re: Questions of the Curious: Living Aboard and Abroad.

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
that was a pretty unneeded comment!
possibly but true,living on a sailboat is not a lifestyle for the less than agile.

how would you manage to lift a 300lb unconsious man overboard back on board?

let alone how would a 300lb person manage to pull themselves back onboard?

sorry but the reality is that sailing is not for the overweight.
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Old 24-07-2014, 05:37   #5
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pirate Re: Questions of the Curious: Living Aboard and Abroad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by atoll View Post
possibly but true,living on a sailboat is not a lifestyle for the less than agile.

how would you manage to lift a 300lb unconsious man overboard back on board?

let alone how would a 300lb person manage to pull themselves back onboard?

sorry but the reality is that sailing is not for the overweight.
Sad but true.. another thing I've not heard before is needing a week to adjust to physical labour..
Sorry mate.. get into a serious weight/fitness regime.. if I caused offense I'm sorry but.. truth sometimes hurts.
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Old 24-07-2014, 05:39   #6
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Re: Questions of the Curious: Living Aboard and Abroad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hourstone View Post
...................

What are good Cruising/Liveaboard Sailboats?
What should I be looking for in a Liveaboard?
What should I watch out for when buying?

'Colorblind' .... How will this impact my ability to become an Able-Bodied Deckhand?
What is the most enchanting thing about living aboard a boat?
My very last question is this: How satisfied are you with a life lived outside the 'norm'?
...............
Hourstone, I'll take on these questions, but the common quality to my answers will be that there are no well defined absolutes.

I would hesitate to list the "good" Cruising/Liveaboard sailboats because the good older used boats are of far more value by their history of care and maintenance than by their original manufacture. There is also a need to evaluate the "good" boat by your planned cruising area. In short, I'd advise shopping the individual vessel and not the brand. If I've now successfully not answered this question, let me try not answering the next!

The majority of liveaboards are single males and most that are successfully adapted to their vessels do not attempt a life on a boat that exceeds thier minimum needs for space and amenities. I think you would do best with a boat in the 28' to 34' range with headroom and berth size that suits your size. Aboat of this size performs best as a sloop or cutter rig.

Some of the main things to "watch out for" when buying would be misaligned/distorted hull form; embedded or corrosion weeping chain plates; damaged hull/deck joint; corrosion of exposed metal keel &/or keel bolts; excessive water intrusion leaks that has damaged the interior; cored hulls or cored decks with widespread soft spots; corroding or failing fuel or water tanks that can not be accessed for replacement; engine & rigging function.

Vision tests and a physical exam are required for merchant marine positions and with the USCG licensing positions, but not for most "deck" positions on charter fishing or tourists activity boats in the US. Most types of colorblindness do not prevent someone from passing these tests.

'most enchanted quality? ... I don't think I can use the term "enchanted" with understanding, but I do enjoy the awareness of the lunar & tide cycles that come with a life on the water. I like knowing that the wind is backing or clocking and what this predicts for the day ahead. I'm very pleased with the ripples of light that fill my cabin when reflected from the wavelets aroung my boat.

Choosing to live aboard and cruise for 43 years is my testament to satisfaction.
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Old 24-07-2014, 05:48   #7
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Re: Questions of the Curious: Living Aboard and Abroad.

Yall do realize that he said he was in decent shape for 300lbs right? You know football players are in that size range and are probably in better shape that the majority of people on here and could probably pull themselves up a tree if they needed to.

What I'm saying is yall are assuming he's a 5'5 obese beach ball with limbs who can't fit down a stinking hatch! He may just be a 6'6" cornbread fed country boy.

I agree you need a certain level of fitness but I bet more than half of the people on here couldn't pull themselves in their boats if they fell over without a ladder, much less swim for longer than a few minutes without a life jacket. Let's not assume people, it makes us all look like pretentious a*sholes.
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Old 24-07-2014, 06:06   #8
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pirate Re: Questions of the Curious: Living Aboard and Abroad.

Yeah.. also true.. but as a 6'2" 76kg skinny pretentious ******* who has lived aboard and seen many try and burn because of the fitness & stamina level required for serious economical live aboard cruising if that's what he's after.. not just pottering back and forth around a few anchorages.
I've seen a heavy man (5'10"/115kg) break his legs in 3 places on the fore deck as we came of the top of a wave and the deck dropped from under our feet.. till we met it on its way back up.. I was fine but my mate bad 2 fractures in his left leg and 1 clean break and two fractures in the other.. we both landed on our feet.
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Old 24-07-2014, 06:34   #9
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Re: Questions of the Curious: Living Aboard and Abroad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by atoll View Post
possibly but true,living on a sailboat is not a lifestyle for the less than agile.

how would you manage to lift a 300lb unconsious man overboard back on board?

let alone how would a 300lb person manage to pull themselves back onboard?

sorry but the reality is that sailing is not for the overweight.
I'll get back to you in 2 more lbs.

What other physical conditions should rule out sailing?
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Old 24-07-2014, 06:47   #10
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Re: Questions of the Curious: Living Aboard and Abroad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hourstone View Post
<snip>

I'm wondering a few key things; First I'll say that the experience I had was on a 2008 MacGregor 26. <snip

So I'll start with these:
  • What are good Cruising/Liveaboard Sailboats?
  • What should I be looking for in a Liveaboard?
  • What should I watch out for when buying?
I am not a MacGregor fan but if you stay in and around Marinas it could make sense for you as it does have that nice headroom. I would not make a MacGregor a passage Maker (not saying it can't be done) Macgregor si teh only boat I've wothed sink for pretty much no apparent reason.

To live aboard and based on your predicted income (unless you have a supplement we don't know about) you shold be looking for

- Headroom - It sucks to be bent over all the time.
- Electrical - Be minimalist in consumption. But as you state a reefer and freezer will make life easier. but learn to shop "everyday" whle in harbor and not rely too much on large quantities of cold items.
- Charger/Shore power - It sounds like you will be docked a lot. Don't "maximize" battery and soalr. 240 amps solar (max) probably and 300-400 ah but you can esily start smaller but be dependent on teh shore plug a lot.

Search the forum for posts made by SailorChic - She is successfully living in SFO on a very tight budget.

based on what you said you shouldn't be looking over say 32 feet. You won't have the money to take care of a bigger boat for a while.

Lots of boats from 27-32 will work for coastal sailing. Find one you can live and learn on for a couple of years. Don't worry about speed and don't worry about "bluewater" whatever that means. Find a boat of which plenty were made - you may find other's like it getting parted out (for parts) a rare boat requires rare skills.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hourstone View Post
<snip>
I've been careful so far to try and watch for electric, a solar panel set-up, an outboard motor (I cannot work in cramped spaces, would rather have the engine exposed and able to be retracted from the water), a stove, and a decent freezer.

Well to the posts below - You really won't have a heck of a lot of choice if you limit yourself to outboards and solon mounted diesels - especially with your presumed budget.

And if this limitation is due to your size you've found the first reason to get in sailing shape. It ain't easy but I lost 50 pounds by going on a strict (grilled) meat and veggie diet for a couple of months. I ate pretty much the amounts I wanted - I am not a dietician and I ain't preaching - You will find being on a boat full time is naturally healthier because you are moving all the time.

Small changes in habit over time can make a difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hourstone View Post
Those are my main wants in a good liveaboard that I can tell - the ameneties such as Television, DVD, things of that nature are just a bonus. My Uncle whom I sailed with has an extra VHF radio and GPS that he's willing to give to me.

<snip>
There is one cost effective solution for entertainment here in my book and that's an iPad. It is tv, book reader, internet browser, netflix wather, iTuners renter, chart plotter (GPS) etc. all rolled into one reasonably priced box.

Seriously - It's all you'll need. Except a VHF.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hourstone View Post
[*]Find a Yachting Job or Dock-Job that would afford me time near and on Sailing Yachts with hopefully some outlet for further learning.[*]Find a School or Online Programme (or more books!) to further my experience for the sport and craft.[*]Bonus: Finding a friend with the same interest of living aboard.[*]Bonus: Finding a Yachting Club to pal around with that's my age. (19)[/LIST]
I like this strategy. You sound like a guy used to labor. Find a boatyard looking for an apprentice - don't read ads. Show up everywhere and offer yourself up - Don't feel rejected by no's

I have a friend (he's a sexist pig - OK) but one night at a party he was asking one lady after another basically straight up did they wanna hook up. After watching him get shot down many multiple times I asked him if it worked.

He said. "If you don't knock on the door, it will never open." He said he hits maybe 1:15 or 1:20 - It's true. I've watched him do it over and over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hourstone View Post
<snip>

I'm no stranger to hard labor, having worked in a warehouse, on wells, and some construction work. So I suppose my only issue will be acquiring the knowledge that I need for what I want to do.
So you are a laborer - that's great - turn that into a skill - before getting sailing lessons find a JC near you and see if they have a vocation engine course petrol OK diesel preferred. Get 2 books by Nifgel Calder - "Mechanical and Electrical Manual" and "Marine Diesel" - Sleep with em and become a boat mechanic - get some skills!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hourstone View Post
<snip>[*]I am a people person, I like to be around people that I know. - However I am not a 'settled' kind of man. I perfer to move around often. Will my choice of nomadic style greatly impact my ability to have a job when I'm abroad?
<snip>
Get into the life. Spend a couple of years in Florida becoming an expert at boats. Put in your dues now and it will pay back dividends 10 fold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hourstone View Post
My very last question is this: How satisfied are you with a life lived outside the 'norm'?
Go to the library and get a copy of "Chasing the Horizon" by Fatty Goodlander - He defines living outside the norm.

If this book doesn't inspire you to chase a dream - even with severely limited resources then maybe rethink your plan.

Finally...

- Never borrow.
- When you borrow () make sure you convert that loan into something you turn over at a profit within 30-60 days.
- Find your passion. If you do what you love you will never work - It's totally true.
- Don't believe anyone that tells you you gottta have "all" the bells and whistles. You need a boat that keeps the water out at all times, makes forward progress, is easy to maintain and is Skippered by a person who understands the craft of sailing. Take care of your boat and it will take care of you.

Good luck to you and I really look forward to your progress.
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Old 24-07-2014, 06:59   #11
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Re: Questions of the Curious: Living Aboard and Abroad.

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Yall do realize that he said he was in decent shape for 300lbs right?
No, he said that he was in "relatively okay shape" for his weight. Sounds to me like he is being vague and hedging. Maybe he's in great shape, maybe not. The point is, the life of a liveaboard is WAAAAY easier if you are in reasonably good shape, not just "relatively okay."

What's more, if he wants to get an entry-level job in the marine industry, most of those require fairly good physical condition, also. Not all of them, but definitely most. Working at a marina, you don't usually start out with a desk job. Working on a boat, they aren't going to start you out sitting at the helm. You are almost certainly going to be doing a lot of physical activity, and you have to be able to sustain that all day long.

It may be unpleasant, and it may sound unkind, but the plain fact of the matter is that the comments above, about him making sure that he's in good shape, are all spot on. That is the reality of the world that he wants to join.
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Old 24-07-2014, 07:05   #12
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Re: Questions of the Curious: Living Aboard and Abroad.

I know you don't want to , I didn't either and it took awhile before I woke up.
But at your age you should go to school with a thought of getting some education that will give you a good paying job.
At your age I was racing motorcycles professionally, it took a couple of years for me to get serious about life and making a living to support a family etc. I.E. the (rat race).
If I had started at your age, maybe now I would already be sailing that new gold plater, as it is I have a couple of years left and I won't be in a new boat.

Unless you are a tall, strong corn fed football type, the weight will play against you. Even if you can do all the physical things necessary, and even you said you can't with the working in a confined area, people are prejudiced against "heavy" people, most consider them to be fat and lazy. Look at how many comments you have received here, what will happen in real life is you want be called fat, you just won't be hired is all.
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Old 24-07-2014, 09:09   #13
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Re: Questions of the Curious: Living Aboard and Abroad.

Which size?

The one that corresponds with your current land based set-up and volume.

We will drag our lifestyles behind. You want a boat to fit, you do not want to fit into the boat.

Remember that you will be likely charged berthage (if such a word exists) per size (LOA likely) or per area (LOA x max beam), so if money an issue, err on the smaller side.

b.
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Old 24-07-2014, 09:28   #14
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Re: Questions of the Curious: Living Aboard and Abroad.

Don't worry about the pretentious.....

I must be doing something wrong because I'm similar sized and have managed to survive since 2007 on board. I can climb out because I have a boarding ladder that I can pull down from the water. A lot of cruising sail boats have gunnels 2 or more feet off the water and most of the pretentious.... couldn't pull themselves out.

Do a search of the threads as moving aboard is a common question. Basically it comes down to what level of lifestyle you want. Most would want something at least in the 28-30' range to have a comfortable living space. After that it's pretty much personal comfort level.
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Old 24-07-2014, 10:15   #15
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Re: Questions of the Curious: Living Aboard and Abroad.

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Don't worry about the pretentious.....

I must be doing something wrong because I'm similar sized and have managed to survive since 2007 on board. I can climb out because I have a boarding ladder that I can pull down from the water. A lot of cruising sail boats have gunnels 2 or more feet off the water and most of the pretentious.... couldn't pull themselves out.

Do a search of the threads as moving aboard is a common question. Basically it comes down to what level of lifestyle you want. Most would want something at least in the 28-30' range to have a comfortable living space. After that it's pretty much personal comfort level.
those boarding ladders can can be activated from the water are lifesavers no matter what your physical condition. years ago i fell overboard while at anchor just reaching down over the gunnel and varnishing the lower rubrail.no -one else was aboard but had gone to shore and i had pulled up the boarding ladder to varnish the area it normally went over.so oops i lost my balance and drop into the harbour. i was a half-decent swimmer at the time and could easily have swam to shore but figured i would try getting back aboard by going "hand over hand" up the anchor chain and get aboard over the bowsprint. i realized right away i didnt have the grip or strength of grip on the chain to do this so i swam around the boat and studied the situation while taking a breather "holding the anchor rode". after 5-10 minutes i swam to shore realizing one of those "emergency boarding anchors" is a smart item to install later. i never measured it but that boat model had maybe 3-4 ft of freeboard at its lowest area. at that time it was only 3 years after being awarded the "award of excellence" in a fitness test at school. many of us got that level and one of the tests was chin-ups while holding a pipe.one school mate who got ribbed for being fat held the school record for those chin-ups but never got the highest level cause he could not run fast.since then i use spring hand grips to keep my grip strong but doubt i could hold myself from falling with one arm and handgrip.in fact i know i couldnt do it today. try it yourself sometime because some of those "fat guys" got real strong hands as most the class realized back then.hands and grip that can pull some lightweight to safety if required from the deck.300 lbs aint out of shape IMO but those 600 pound shut-ins i have seen on TV is definitely there.fairwinds and godspeed.
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