Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 13-02-2014, 12:22   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2014
Boat: Still Searching
Posts: 162
Occassional Liveaboard Charter

Just curious what the rules are regarding taking on an occasional charter as a liveaboard. As an example, you're a liveaboard cruising the Caribbean with a spare cabin or two. Once every month or two you offer your spare cabin for a week or so to an adventurous couple or something. Maybe you know them or maybe they are just friends of a friend. Not like you're running a constant charter business or anything, but more like you enjoy meeting new people, have a bit of extra room, and wouldn't mind having others on board occasionally. But it not exactly free to have another couple tagging along, and on a regular crewed charter they'd be paying $10K+ for something like that. Is it kosher to offer something like that occasionally and charge a couple thousand to make sure you cover costs and maybe put a small amount of coin in your pocket for future maintenance?
__________________

__________________
Certeza is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2014, 12:28   #2
Registered User
 
Dulcesuenos's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Florida Keys, Bahamas Bound
Boat: 38' French Cat
Posts: 2,828
Images: 4
Re: Occassional Liveaboard Charter

Nothing wrong with "Friends helping out with food, fuel and maint" on board. As long as you fly below the radar. Its if somone gets hurt and they tell your insurance co or official that the problems begin....
__________________

__________________
Dulcesuenos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2014, 12:37   #3
Registered User
 
denverd0n's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 3,949
Images: 6
Re: Occassional Liveaboard Charter

In general, no. Despite the fact that you are not "running a constant charter business" most countries will still consider it to be a business when you charge people to come on your boat with you. And they will require you to follow all of the same regulations as someone who is operating their boat for hire every day of every week.

Most countries will require you to be licensed. Most will require your boat to be inspected to a certain standard. Some will have insurance requirements that you must meet. They may require you to have a business license. And so on.

Of course, there are a lot of people out there who try to circumvent these laws by claiming that they are only "sharing costs" with their passengers. While the odds of getting caught, if you try this, are relatively low, most countries are onto this particular dodge and if you DO get caught they will not be sympathetic. You may end up being fined, having your boat confiscated, spending time in jail, none of the above, or all of the above. It just depends.

If you do, in fact, only share direct costs for the particular voyage with your passengers, that is usually legal. But obviously you cannot make any money doing that--not even pocket money for future maintenance.
__________________
denverd0n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2014, 14:08   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2014
Boat: Still Searching
Posts: 162
Re: Occassional Liveaboard Charter

I thought that might be the case. I'm wondering to what extent direct costs must be shared. For example, if I was docked in Puerto Rico and some friends came to stay for a couple weeks and wanted to cruise the BVIs, it would be fair to expect them to pay for fuel if I otherwise would not have gone there. Seems unfair to suggest that the fuel cost should be shared equally.
__________________
Certeza is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2014, 14:22   #5
Registered User
 
denverd0n's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 3,949
Images: 6
Re: Occassional Liveaboard Charter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Certeza View Post
Seems unfair to suggest that the fuel cost should be shared equally.
And yet that is what the Coast Guard would tell you. You are going too, after all. This is the essence of it NOT being a "boat for hire" situation. You are not going because they want to, and you are providing them a service. You are going with other people on a completely mutual basis. So you share the costs on a completely mutual basis.

As I said before, lots of people take the chance, get around this, and don't get caught. But strictly according to the letter of the law, as the Coast Guard interprets it, you would have to pay your share of the fuel costs.
__________________
denverd0n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2014, 14:30   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2014
Boat: Still Searching
Posts: 162
Re: Occassional Liveaboard Charter

__________________
Certeza is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2014, 15:11   #7
Registered User
 
Teknav's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Texas - USA
Boat: Twin Otter de Havilland Floatplane
Posts: 1,838
Re: Occassional Liveaboard Charter

Putting it in a different setting...A licensed "Private Pilot" may allow his/her passengers to share the cost of fuel and landing fees. He/she may NOT share the cost of the plane rental; FAA regulations.

If you're taking "guests" on-board your boat, asking them to pitch in for the cost of food and fuel...WITHOUT exchanging cash...would be OK.

When I get invited to sail with friends, I always bring in sandwiches for everyone or a tray of cold cuts and soft drinks for the day. While it is not expected, it's a good gesture that I always follow.

Mauritz
__________________
Retired - Don't Ask Me To Do A Damn Thing!
Teknav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2014, 15:30   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 994
Re: Occassional Liveaboard Charter

Humm - when my friend boats with me on my boat he will pay for the fuel. Plus buys my lunch. I do not take the $$$ he pays for fuel and my lunch and add that to my income. Nor do I feel like I am running a business. I guess because I do not ask him to pay...he is just a stand-up guy.

Now - if he gets hurt I would think his insurance would kick in.

I would think relatives and close friends could say - "hey, if you want to cruise the Caribbean I will split the cost with you".

But not a stranger that is going to pay a set amount - that is a business.
__________________
tuffr2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2014, 17:13   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 209
Re: Occassional Liveaboard Charter

In the Seattle area there was a pilot selling plane rides without the proper paperwork. After he got shut down he started selling T-shirts with a picture of his plane. The shirts were about $50.00 and included a free plane ride

Sent from my SCH-I415 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
wellin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2014, 17:39   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: vancouver, canada
Boat: hunter 31
Posts: 609
Re: Occassional Liveaboard Charter

Any "coin" you pocket makes it a charter, pure and simple. If you begin charging for anything beyond the food n' fuel, you are chartering, and, if one of your guests piles the boat onto the rocks while you're down below preparing snacks for your "customers" your insurance company can, and likely will, deny the claim.
__________________
shorebird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2014, 18:14   #11
Registered User
 
jkindredpdx's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Portland, OR, USA
Boat: Hallberg Rassy 35'
Posts: 1,047
Images: 5
Re: Occassional Liveaboard Charter

Quote:
Originally Posted by wellin View Post
In the Seattle area there was a pilot selling plane rides without the proper paperwork. After he got shut down he started selling T-shirts with a picture of his plane. The shirts were about $50.00 and included a free plane ride

Sent from my SCH-I415 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
And... I heard of a guy selling tshirts and then inviting people who bought one to spend the night in one of his tree houses That could work for a boat also!

IMO tho, walking the line to avoid fees and regulations is not worth it... Do you want your insurance company to refuse coverage when someone is hurt and they decide you violated the terms of the policy? Do you want to be without a license or insurance if someone takes you to court? Do you want your boat impounded? And some charter regs might be a good idea... do you have an adequate first aid kit and emergency equipment on-board?

Plus there is the hassle factor... I've donated a weekend at my cabin, flyfishing lessons, and sailing trips for charity events. They were a PITA even under good conditions. Yes I was a slow learner. Now I just donate money directly to the charity.
__________________

__________________
http://www.sednahr35.blogspot.com/ Jim K.
jkindredpdx is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
charter, liveaboard

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:29.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.