Los Angeles County Cruisers Beware!

[Roy M]

I am a registered liveaboard in San Diego. Every year the folks from the County send their minions with clipboards to our marinas and yachtclubs to confirm the status of the boats. Since the boat is my legal residence I get a tax credit which makes me owe them zero. The County sends me a letter, to my registered mail box, asking me to confirm that my status remains the same. I check the box, mail it back, and forget about it for another year.

[Sailor_Hutch]

The tax man in my state collects on a boat as personal property taxes, rather than sales tax. I guess Cali is the same. Or - do they get taxed both ways?

Anyway, it looks like a normal annual tax bite, on a "regular" boat, is a few thousand dollars for most people. That's around 250/mo - and a big chunk for that mythical 500/mo sailor's budget. Well - the 500/mo guy probably doesn't have a boat quite big enough for that kind of change. Anyway - I wonder how it is around the world? Maybe some international sailors could comment (or start another thread). There should be a wiki that lists all this type of thing. Wouldn't that be nice?

[Stevens 47]

Originally Posted by Roy M

I am a registered liveaboard in San Diego. Every year the folks from the County send their minions with clipboards to our marinas and yachtclubs to confirm the status of the boats. Since the boat is my legal residence I get a tax credit which makes me owe them zero. The County sends me a letter, to my registered mail box, asking me to confirm that my status remains the same. I check the box, mail it back, and forget about it for another year.

Can you clarify or explain registered liveaboard. We live an our boat and would like to know how the tax credit works. This thread has been helpful as we are departing for MX in 2015. Jack

[SV THIRD DAY]

California collects a sales tax and use/personal property tax...so in the famous words of Bo Jackson.....Both.

I'm not trying to support the tax hacks here guys....I'm just trying to say that if you know the law then you can legally avoid a tax you don't owe. California doesn't know the story on all the out if State documented boats floating here...so they Assume they are here for more than a transient stop and charge the use/property tax and then let the owner tell/prove to them they Ade exempt. Ya that is BS and I would end the tax all together if I was in charge, but remember there is a political party that tells us the evil 1%-ers who own boats are dodging taxes and not paying their fair share.

Look, we all know that if they just took the owners word for it that no boats would ever be "kept in California" and they would all just be passing through to avoids the tax. So they hear the BS stories at the tax office every day so don't be surprised when they don't believe you at first go.

Barbara Jenkins Agency in San Diego can be hired to help clean up your transient tax bute mess. They are on Rosecrands on Shelter Island...save people all the time from the tax man.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Sailor_Hutch

There should be a wiki that lists all this type of thing. Wouldn't that be nice?

wikis don't just magically appear because you think it would be a good idea, they are made by people like you who think they're a good idea. If you think it's such a good idea, why not start one?

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

California collects a sales tax and use/personal property tax...so in the famous words of Bo Jackson.....Both.

Rich, just a clarification: both, but sales tax is only collected once. I already posted about the difference between sales and use tax, which is not both. Property taxes are collected annually. Right?

Thanks for your informative and helpful posts on this subject. Some folks just like CA bashing and won't listen to reason, and law.

[Sailor_Hutch]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

wikis don't just magically appear because you think it would be a good idea, they are made by people like you who think they're a good idea. If you think it's such a good idea, why not start one?

There are so many wikis I'd like to start. But - the ones that don't exist and that I'd *really* like to see sprouting up on the net, are not currently to be found anywhere, probably for a good reason. I think the usual reason is liability. In the case of a tax wiki, you're indirectly dispensing legal advice, I suppose. So does the tax consultant, of course. There's some shield in the fact that no monies are charged for the service, directly. In spite of the FUD, I do think it'd be a great resource.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Rich, just a clarification: both, but sales tax is only collected once. I already posted about the difference between sales and use tax, which is not both. Property taxes are collected annually. Right?
.

Correct the sales tax is a one time hit.
The use/property tax goes on until you get the boat out of the State for that "tax year".
We just happily paid our use/property tax here in morro bay, (after not having to pay it while the boat was out of CA yet we still were CA residents i might add) but since we are live aboards we received a tax exemption which reduced my bill down to $310..for living in paradise. The houses looking down on me are paying more like $2k per month!....sucks to be them...and another good reason to be me...besides being a smart ass...hahaha

[Cheechako]

Fortunately WA state doesn't have this BS so bad. Essentially you can register your boat here and you wont have to pay any yearly fee if you decide to not use your boat. The fee is attached to the yearly sticker renewal... and if you don't launch your boat you don't need a sticker! No one at the DMV or tax bureau cares. Come on up! there's a helluva lot more cruising grounds up here than CA too...

[delmarrey]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Fortunately WA state doesn't have this BS so bad. Essentially you can register your boat here and you wont have to pay any yearly fee if you decide to not use your boat. The fee is attached to the yearly sticker renewal... and if you don't launch your boat you don't need a sticker! No one at the DMV or tax bureau cares. Come on up! there's a helluva lot more cruising grounds up here than CA too...

Yeah but! It's hard to find a slip on the Seattle side of the Sound. I was luck to get the one in Everett. It only took 2 months. Even the yachtys side had a 6 month waiting list.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Fortunately WA state doesn't have this BS so bad. Essentially you can register your boat here and you wont have to pay any yearly fee if you decide to not use your boat. The fee is attached to the yearly sticker renewal... and if you don't launch your boat you don't need a sticker! No one at the DMV or tax bureau cares. Come on up! there's a helluva lot more cruising grounds up here than CA too...

Oh but trust me....they ply other gsmes . last year the department of Rev in WA State tried to tell the out of State vendors that since the attend the Seattle Boat show that we were now legally required to collect and submit the WA State sales tax for gear we shipping into a state. So many vendors started canceling their booth spaces that the Boat Show organizers had to have a "talk" with the department of rev...then it all quietly went away....

States are going broke everywhere as the public employee pension liability grow faster than future revenues.....a big ugly is going to happen in the next 15yrs. I sure to be back in mexico before it hits!

Damn thumb typing on the smart phone from a Mexican dentist office this morning while my daughter gets her monthly braces adjustment. $18oo in mexico...$7500 in California.....oh ya....I'm outta this pit soon mi amigos.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Oh but trust me....they ply other gsmes . last year the department of Rev in WA State tried to tell the out of State vendors that since the attend the Seattle Boat show that we were now legally required to collect and submit the WA State sales tax for gear we shipping into a state. So many vendors started canceling their booth spaces that the Boat Show organizers had to have a "talk" with the department of rev...then it all quietly went away....

States are going broke everywhere as the public employee pension liability grow faster than future revenues.....a big ugly is going to happen in the next 15yrs. I sure to be back in mexico before it hits!

OH yeah, not new news... now EVERYTHING sold ...even on-line is supposed to have the tax collected, I think WA state and other states won that battle in the courts a couple years back.

[BandB]

Quite honestly, I think some of us are far more accustomed to dealing with taxing authorities, bureaucrats and governmental agencies than others. For us the California taxing issue is just a very normal type thing we've dealt with a hundred times. After the IRS, the SEC, the EEOC, OSHA, the EPA, Customs, multiple countries, multiple states, there is nothing unique in the California taxing issue.

However, the mistake those of us with experience make is not realizing others haven't been through similar and don't know their way in dealing with such. For them I'd recommend providing everything requested regardless of how stupid it all might seem. And get advise from people with experience, not the "Rah rah" of drinking buddies who tell you to go after those bas....ds and how tough to be when they'd probably fall on their sword at the first letter.

When dealing with these type officials too, showing a certain level of respect is critical even if you don't necessarily feel the respect. Making things confrontational is generally counter-productive. Asking for help and guidance and providing everything they feel they need is far more productive.

And the biggest thing learned from this thread is that if California (and other states are the same) has any reason to believe your boat is subject to California tax then you may have to go to great lengths to prove why it isn't. What we got out of this and other threads was to go talk to the local tax official in advance. We explained and showed documents indicating a Washington purchase, the fact we'd paid Florida sales tax (yes the seller also has a Florida tax number, etc.) it's registered in Florida, documented with a Florida homeport and it's transiting California, entering on October 6 and leaving on January 15 and on January 1 the boat will be in San Diego while we'll be in Florida enjoying the holidays. And now we have a name and we know exactly who to contact if we get a bill. Also he's notified the assessor who will be checking the marina where it will be.

The last issue of this nature we encountered was NC wanting to tax us on Income during our first six months in Florida. We anticipated that and had a very thick stack of documents all ready for them. Talking to them was rather humorous. The individual said, "Well, it sounds like you moved to Florida to escape income tax." I replied, "You used the key word...we moved to Florida. Now we moved for other reasons but there is actually nothing wrong with one moving to another state because it doesn't have income tax. You, yourself just said we moved. That's all that counts." So he had one final comment which was "Well, ok, but I still don't like it."

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

OH yeah, not new news... now EVERYTHING sold ...even on-line is supposed to have the tax collected, I think WA state and other states won that battle in the courts a couple years back.

Payable by the buyer...not the out of State seller.
WA State tried to argue that attending the Seattle Boat show created a ,"nexus" that made you then have to act as the WA Tax man on all sales into the State....they backed down quick when the Seattle Biat show started losing vendors. Aka....they got a political talking too and spanken.

[brantleychuck]

Originally Posted by NewportGuy

I hope that those in charge if CF will close this thread. It's become an ill informed and useless rant. Several of us have pointed out the recourse available to the OP. If the facts are as he reported them, he has no 2014 property tax liability to California for his boat. Let's move on to other topics and make better use of this forum.


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It's been my experience more often than not the folks that seem to want to shut down conversation are also the same types running California, just my experience. Never understand the call for the moderators to " shut it down" so simple just to not click on it. Must be another reason. Hum.........
I've lived in so cal most my life. My wife and I are the types California needs and will need to pay the bills. It just a shame the business, political ,, tax,social climate are working so hard against us. My guess is that we will leave eventually .The California liberal establishment are slowly killing the golden gooses that keeps the tax money coming in. I can just see them looking into there paper bags, not plastic , wondering where all the tax dollars went!



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