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Old 21-05-2013, 23:54   #211
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Re: Hobos Afloat

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Originally Posted by rebel heart View Post
4 knots of current, crap visibility, and probably 20 of these gems laying about in a busy bay. Hauling up anchors isn't a joke either, especially in current and chop which is normal here.
That my friend is what's called a gold mine. Even if those anchors once fetched from the bottom have little value where you are you can put 'em on a boat heading north to be sold. I've hauled plenty of lost anchors. Those plus lost fishing weights to recast into diving weights paid a pretty penny. As always be careful in salvage diving. Is the water murky all the time?
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Old 22-05-2013, 05:07   #212
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Re: Hobos Afloat

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... enjoy your judgementalism and stereotypes as you become them ...
Part of a rather judgmental statement, IMO.
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Old 22-05-2013, 08:20   #213
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Re: Hobos Afloat

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For the record, in 35+ years of cruising I have never been run into by a dragging "bum" boat, but I have numerous times been hit by boats worth much more than mine, in several cases causing damage that the owners of the big boats refused to do anything about. And I have helped rescue many more dragging craft, in many cases more valuable than mine. The dragging bum boat phenomena people worry about is pretty rare in my experience.
Realistically, this is more likely the case than not.

And, regarding who is more likely to own 'derelict' or unattended boats - it is probably someone aspiring to a sailing lifestyle who managed to buy a boat cheap and chose an open anchorage for storage until such time as preparations began. Predictably, preparations most frequently never begin and the boats are left to deteriorate. I know from personal experience one person used Clipper Cove at Treasure Island (S.F.Bay area) to store boats he purchased cheap for resale... Granted, he spiffed these boats up and in some cases probably prevented them from sinking. A legitimate use of a public anchorage?

Considering the toxic wastes, detrius, sewage and more dumped into the Gulf coast and communities with every hurricane, I'm surprised anyone living in the area imagines the sum total of human waste negligently discharged from pleasure craft matters. And, sources of water pollution originating from land based sewage spills due to flooding and or systemic failures eclipse quantities from boats. So, why the focus on boaters? It's dependent upon one's lifestyle, vantage point and perspectives of others.

Whether or not a person participates in 'the game', or adapts a 'normal' lifestyle can depend a lot on how they judge joining up will cost in terms of more or less freedom and whether buying into the value set feels right. A decision often requires lowering one's expections of earnings in return for work, and adoption of a low cost lifestyle. Where and how to live? Many of us have chosen a life afloat because buying into the status quo required adopting a set of values we could not agree to, and living aboard is a relatively low cost option.

Where we obtain what we need - water, food, fuel and access to services, or leave our garbage - is more a matter of accessibility than anything else. Physical barriers preventing access are everywhere, and travelling to a marina for access may simply be impractical.

Living on the hook presents ever changing challenges to those of us who are constantly on the move but occasionally remain in one place for some time. Seasonal factors most significantly affect whether we can go or must stay.

Little is accomplished by categorizing boaters as bums, good, bad and or ugly. Much that is wrong in our anchorages will only be righted by facilitating access, providing pump out facilities and developing some sort of outreach program to deal with derelict boats and their occupants.

armido

Now one must obtain a permit in advance and time to anchor is restricted.
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Old 22-05-2013, 09:01   #214
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Re: Hobos Afloat

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In St Augustine, you can't get the resident liveaboard mooring rates unless you also own property in the county. A strange wrinkle as they stole almost all the good anchoring areas in town limits for moorings. If you've been living aboard here for say 20 years and want a mooring you're a non-resident unless you have a property on shore.


That's true here too. But it goes back to Florida's definition of a "Live-aboard." Legally, it means you move around.
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Old 22-05-2013, 09:04   #215
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Re: Hobos Afloat

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Oh wait...

Yeah. I woudl not choose to anchor off St. Augustine. But then I'm one of those weirdos who would *prefer* a good mooring field. And yeah, if I was going to stay there through hurricane season (I wouldn't leave it there in a hurricane) I would have someone with known knowledge dive the mooring for me and make sure it was in good shape.

I know that's un-"PC" here. I bet most people here think they despise "PC" thinking, but like any culture, this place has its PC hot buttons, and I'm being un-PC for this forum.
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Old 22-05-2013, 09:05   #216
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Re: Hobos Afloat

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One of my goals in life is to make a bunch of people indignant for the same reason.

Thinly-veiled jealousy. My hat is off to you for pulling it off. Part good financial planning on your part and part intelligent spending, I suspect.
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Old 22-05-2013, 09:06   #217
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Re: Hobos Afloat

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Yep.

What is happening here is different definitions of a bum. It is a pretty wide grey area between the black and white ends.

To me you're not a bum until you have to panhandle.
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Old 22-05-2013, 09:21   #218
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pirate Re: Hobos Afloat

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
To me you're not a bum until you have to panhandle.
That's why I gave up prospecting in the Hindu Kush...
everyone called me a bum.
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Old 22-05-2013, 09:58   #219
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Re: Hobos Afloat

You're dead wrong on the services. most cities in FL have a legite way to land your dinghy, dispose of your garbage, obtain water. Usually this is by way of paying a modest fee to the city marina or private marina/ restaurant. This that refuse to participate in the reasonable scheme are BUMS. Not constitutional heros.

Here in St Augustine that takes the shape of parking and disposing of trash at the county launch ramps. OK, if you're passing thru while cruising, but these facilities are not designed to be used 365. Again, the loser will be the cruisers when the county eventually cracks down and allows no anchoring overnight and no landing of dinghies on county property even for short periods.
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Old 22-05-2013, 12:10   #220
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Re: Hobos Afloat

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Originally Posted by Don L View Post
This thread has made me want to be a hobo/boat bum. I'm not really seeing a downside other than being trashed on CF, and I already have that!
Don,
You are already a boat bum, you just have not caught on yet. Every time you are out on the boat having a 10am brew and going commando you have stepped outside the boundaries of yachting society. If you become disabled, good heavens! The sky is the limit. Hoho...hobo!

If I did not have the flu I would go down to the boat and give her a good socially acceptable rubdown.

Todd
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Old 22-05-2013, 12:46   #221
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Re: Hobos Afloat

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You're dead wrong on the services. most cities in FL have a legite way to land your dinghy, dispose of your garbage, obtain water. Usually this is by way of paying a modest fee to the city marina or private marina/ restaurant. This that refuse to participate in the reasonable scheme are BUMS. Not constitutional heros.
Some cities in Florida charge for these things, but the vast majority do not. I refuse to participate in such schemes by taking my money elsewhere to places where I am allowed to anchor. In any case, even in St. Augustine there is no law that you can't use a county ramp to access shore or use their public trash facilities. Again, those are public property, owned by everyone, and free to use 24 hours per day. The vast majority of harbors in the USA offer free access to and from the waterfront on public property in numerous places.

Bottom line is that public means public, no matter how high or low your station in life. We are all the same before the Lord and Law.
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Old 22-05-2013, 18:13   #222
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Re: Hobos Afloat

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Originally Posted by Boatguy30 View Post
You're dead wrong on the services. most cities in FL have a legite way to land your dinghy, dispose of your garbage, obtain water. Usually this is by way of paying a modest fee to the city marina or private marina/ restaurant. This that refuse to participate in the reasonable scheme are BUMS. Not constitutional heros.

Here in St Augustine that takes the shape of parking and disposing of trash at the county launch ramps. OK, if you're passing thru while cruising, but these facilities are not designed to be used 365. Again, the loser will be the cruisers when the county eventually cracks down and allows no anchoring overnight and no landing of dinghies on county property even for short periods.
My post did not begin with "In Florida". Unless your destination anywhere in the U.S. is a municipality that has public shoreside facilities built to accommodate boaters, what I said sticks. In Orange, Texas for example, on the river there is a boat ramp and adjacent dock. Ashore there are trash recepticals and parking. Access is free and open to all comers. These facilities are far from services most cruisers want/need - and if one dares to anchor in the river - he or she is fully exposed to potentially very strong wind. Meanwhile, closer to the town and services is a protected anchorage with absolutely no provision for getting safely to shore. No ramp, or dingy dock. The shoreline is lined with sharp rocks and seawalls that can be climbed up and over with care. All other possible routes ashore are blocked by industry, private property and fences. If you overcome the obstacles and get ashore, there is no public transportation. Almost the entire length of the intracoastal waterway and what towns there are along the route make no accommodation for boaters. The exception is - you guessed right - Florida. This is especially true near Fort Walton Beach. In Texas, Galveston where a few marinas that have survived or recovered from hurricanes will put you up for relatively short periods of time. Otherwise your choice is to spend a lot of cash in a marina (most have not reopened after Ike) or anchor fully exposed to prevailing winds. Then, getting ashore is a real challenge due to the fences, rocky shoreline and less than accommodating folks who own homes and businesses along the waterfront. Lost somewhere in all of this is the fact everyone in the boating community is being squeezed, and it has as much if not more to do with who controls the shoreline - public or private - than how many bums are perceived to be liviing on boats, derelict or not.

armido

Seaside towns and cities in California are a mix of places that may or may not welcome and provide accommodations to cruisers. In recent years new restrictions on where one can anchor, for how long and only with a permit issued in advance have proliferated.

I am one sailor who mourns the loss of free, convenient anchorages near services and with reasonably easy access to shore.
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Old 22-05-2013, 18:22   #223
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Re: Hobos Afloat

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I am one sailor who mourns the loss of free, convenient anchorages near services and with reasonably easy access to shore.
Come on over to the East Coast. Except for a handful of places in Florida, there are thousands of sheltered towns you can anchor off of and access shore for free. I have sailed from Maine to Florida and back numerous times, and I almost never stay in a marina. Sure, there are some harbors that are crowded and anchorage space is limited, but very few without someplace you can drop the hook.
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Old 22-05-2013, 18:23   #224
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Re: Hobos Afloat

I agree about the getting squeezed. The public ramps are certainly for public use, but intended for occasional day use not full time use.

Anyway, the dockage rates here are really going up. Marinas that charged $8 or 9 two years ago want $12 or 13 per/ft/month.

Wages certainly have not gone up in that time. I bought an old trailer on a shallow canal to keep my cat at, hopefully I'll be able to anchor somewheres when I go cruising.
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Old 22-05-2013, 19:09   #225
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Re: Hobos Afloat

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... I am one sailor who mourns the loss of free, convenient anchorages near services and with reasonably easy access to shore.
Me too. There are many threads on this, and lots of folks think replacing free anchorages with pay moorings is more than ok.

But ... new moorings are one thing and older another. Depending on the fittings St Augustine (to use an example) bought, they could be used for years ... or not. Think that little city bought the best chain available or the cheapest? They'll have a waiver to sign. Don't want to sign? OK, there's what's left of what was the free anchorage (he said, pointing to the unprotected corner over on the shallow side).

Ah, but 10 years from now no one will remember or care since we have already lost a freedom we had, got nothing in return except more county fees.
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