Florida ? Not Lately . . .

[Red Mantis]

Everybody's being paid by somebody. Whether they're taking money from industries that don't want to be taxed or regulated to death, or taking money from advocacy groups who need to keep the fundraising going, or taking money from government agencies who'd love to have more regulatory power to throw around, they've all got motives.

A well respected principle is that extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. Until the raw data and the software models are made available for broad review by skeptics and advocates alike, I'm gonna just live my life. Meanwhile, I'm buying land in Greenland and Texas. I figure I'll be all set no matter what.

Now, who wants to go see the iceboat races on Lake Phalen on the 30th?

[stevesailor]

yea, i was sailing in florida off shore during the cold spell. it was crazy cold, and at one point in south florida the whole ocean started steaming. i had never seen anything like it. reduced visibility to less than 1/4 mile, but it was beautiful.
between that, the sleet, the cold, and the wet, it was an intense and beautiful sail.


to be honest im pretty amazed that there's even a debate to global warming existing or not. i could care less about professional scientists and whatnot, examples like the northwest passage being open nowadays and the insane weather patterns speaks to me (im pretty sure it's understood, but GW means something very different to it being warmer all the time).

[gettinthere]

1987 - U.S. Navy

1922 - Arctic Ocean Getting Warm; Seals Vanish and Icebergs Melt (Monthly Weather Review, November 2, 1922)
1923 - Report the arctic is getting warmer (The New York Times, February 25, 1923)
1923 - Getting warmer in the arctic ocean (Chicago Tribune, March 1, 1923)
1932 - Soviet Ship Circles Franz Josef Land (The New York Times, December 5, 1932)
1940 - Ice In Arctic Melting Rapidly (The Hartford Courant, October 13, 1940)
1958 - Ice at the North Pole in 1958 and 1959 - not so thick (Watts Up With That?)
1969 - Expert Says Arctic Ocean Will Soon Be an Open Sea (The New York Times, February 20th, 1969)

[fishwife]

In the end, if the sceptics are correct, life will go on, if they are wrong, our children and their children will pay for our excesses. If you want to gamble with the future of your kin, I guess you have the right I'd rather err on the side of caution.

Paige

[gettinthere]

...at what price? If you really want to follow that logic then you should not own a boat. It has a carbon footprint from the engine & genset to the plastics and resins in the fiberglass and lines and sails and hoses, etc.
Al Gore owns a 100' Motor Yacht with massive twin diesels and a big pair of generators. If the leader of the movement lives like that then I guess it really doesn't matter after all.

[Therapy]

Is there somewhere that will show what one at the top will have to give up and what one at the bottom will gain if everyone is equal?

What a chart that would be.

I suspect I would not be able to have a boat, or the 4 cars, or the 2 acres, or the pool, or even the gas stove or most of my socks..........

If all was equalized.

It would all be there still though. All the "carbon" output.

The only answer on impact to the planet is reduction in our numbers.

Who is going to sacrifice themselves first?

Hold hands and jump at the same time?

Kum-by-ya.

[svHyLyte]

Originally Posted by Therapy

...The only answer on impact to the planet is reduction in our numbers.

Who is going to sacrifice themselves first?

Hold hands and jump at the same time?

Kum-by-ya.

Therapy--There ain't no cheese down that hole.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by svHyLyte

Therapy--There ain't no cheese down that hole.

Exactly.

And most here are personally responsible for our planet's demise simply because we own boats. Other reasons also too, but if you owned nothing but a boat you would still be responsible because of the billions that only have one pair of socks.

And you are more responsible because you have a generator AND a propulsion unit. I have only one.

[knothead]

Originally Posted by Therapy

The only answer on impact to the planet is reduction in our numbers.

Who is going to sacrifice themselves first?

Really? There are lots of things we can do to be better stewards of this planet than offing ourselves.
Go read the Composting Heads thread for a start.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by knothead

Really? There are lots of things we can do to be better stewards of this planet than offing ourselves.
Go read the Composting Heads thread for a start.

It is my opinion that even if all those little things are pushed they will not add up to enough.

We can't even teach people of the world that are still cooking with open fires (a billion or so) that there is a little device that will cut their wood usage and up their btu's while reducing the amount of smoke in their huts.

Oh yea, just the big wasters like me. I get it.

Let's have the first world cut plastic and battery use by 50% over 10 years. Naa, lets just say 25%.

It can't work for the human animal.

All my opinion of course and I live in a "free" country. Glad too. Lucky me.

As to the OP.

This is more of a rant than anything, I just wish that the sailing gods would once again allow the water to return to a state that will allow me to sail in it instead of walk on it. This is the reason I live in Florida after all...

And I suppose I am doing the same thing, sorry.

These subjects are discussed by humans within their societies and those are political. Can't be anything but.

So, my apologies.

I won't say anything further here. There is another loooooong one on another site (probably lots of them). See ya over there.

[knothead]

Originally Posted by Therapy

It is my opinion that even if all those little things are pushed they will not add up to enough.

We can't even teach people of the world that are still cooking with open fires (a billion or so) that there is a little device that will cut their wood usage and up their btu's while reducing the amount of smoke in their huts.

Oh yea, just the big wasters like me. I get it.

You may well be right. But all anyone can do is their part. If you start carrying the weight of the world on your shoulders, you're bound to be crushed.

[Brent Swain]

Originally Posted by Therapy

Exactly.

And most here are personally responsible for our planet's demise simply because we own boats. Other reasons also too, but if you owned nothing but a boat you would still be responsible because of the billions that only have one pair of socks.

And you are more responsible because you have a generator AND a propulsion unit. I have only one.

If you live on your boat full time, don't drive, and don't own land , your environmental foot print is about 1/13th that of landlubbers. Sounds like a good start.

[gettinthere]

Originally Posted by Brent Swain

If you live on your boat full time, don't drive, and don't own land , your environmental foot print is about 1/13th that of landlubbers. Sounds like a good start.

Which landlubbers? The richest in the world based in the USA or all the people of the world, including those living in 12 X 12 grass huts with dirt floors? After all it's GLOBAL warming we're talking about. I can't find the numbers but if you count the average consumption of ALL the people of the world, I'd expect living on a sailboat to be relatively high on the consumption of resources list. Certainly much lower than the developed world and a good step in the right direction. But still above world average.

[GordMay]

The average North American generates about 20-25 tons (perhaps more) of CO2-equivalent each year. The global average carbon footprint is roughly 20% of that, at about 4 tons of CO2-eq per year.
The general scientific consensus is that global per capita emission levels must drop to just 1 ton per person by 2050 to limit global warming to 2 degrees C. For most countries, the production of food alone currently accounts for 1 ton per capita.

Carbon Calculator
➥ Carbon Footprints of Nations. A Global, Trade-linked Analysis | Calculator of Carbon Footprint for Nations

[jdoe71]

I've always thought it is unfortunate that Gore became the self-appointed messiah of global warming, which I feel is a badly chose moniker, it should be referred to as climate change. While Gore has helped to raise awareness of the issue, his personal lifestyle renders him completely unbelievable and he comes off as just another huckster out to fatten his wallet while he adds to the problem. If you're gonna talk the talk, you better walk the walk.

It also surprises me how our footprint is created in Canada, according to the chart Gord refers to. I was under the obviously mistaken impression that our piggish energy consumption could be largely attributed to our cold climate that requires massive energy consumption to warm our bones. In reality, it seems Import/Export is the real culprit, and that is largely the pursuit of "stuff". It will be the downfall of us all in the western world.