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Old 11-09-2003, 20:38   #1
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Florida Live Aboards

Please ALL Florida Live Aboards listen up.

There is NO FLORIDA STATUE (Law) stating a vessel may only anchor on state owned waterways for only 6 months. Let me repeat… There is NO FLORIDA STATUE (Law) stating a vessel may only anchor on state owned waterways for only 6 months.

That is correct, there is no Florida Statue limiting a live aboard boater to 6 month anchorage. It is not even a regulation, it is a policy that was put into a bay bottome lease and then stipulated to be put in all bay bottom leases. And there is a BIG difference between a State Statue (law) and a policy.

You see a policy may be changed depending on the needs and requirements of the given locality. Since this has been brought to the attention of Marathon Florida’s city leaders, one of Marathon’s City Councilmen put forth a city resolution whereby, the waters surrounding and within the city limits provide one of the best and last, year round live aboard anchorages and the 6 month rule created a hardship, as that a large percentage of live aboard boaters provide a year round work force for the city.

The City of Marathon is starting to understand that the live aboard boater is not only a large part of the cities work force, but that Marathon is unique in the fact that the live aboard anchorage is in fact affordable housing.
Marathon’s City Leaders will be addressing this issue with State Representatives and the State Board of Trustees. You see the policy about a six-month limit on anchoring was not intended to displace workers and families in such a unique place as Marathon. That is not and was not the intended spirit of the policy.
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Old 11-11-2003, 01:57   #2
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AG's Interpretation of Florida Statutes

From:
http://myfloridalegal.com/ago.nsf/aa...0!OpenDocument

FromThe Atorney General of Florida:
To
Mr. Thomas A. Bustin
City Attorney
City of Clearwater
Post Office Box 4748
Clearwater, Florida 33518-4748

Dear Mr. Bustin:

This is in response to your request for my opinion on substantially the following questions:

1. ARE VESSELS WHICH ARE USED AS A PERSON'S PRIMARY RESIDENCE "LIVE-ABOARD VESSELS" FOR PURPOSES OF s 327.60(2), F.S., EVEN THOUGH THEY MAY ALSO BE USED FOR RECREATIONAL PURPOSES?

2. WHAT ARE THE RIGHTS OF NAVIGATION WHICH A MUNICIPALITY IS PROHIBITED FROM REGULATING PURSUANT TO s 327.60(2), F.S., WHEN ENGAGED IN BY NON-LIVE-ABOARD VESSELS?

... content omitted - see full letter ...

Therefore, unless and until legislatively or judicially determined otherwise, I am of the opinion that vessels which are used as a person's primary residence may be "live-aboard vessels" for purposes of municipal regulation permitted by s 327.60(2), F.S., even though they are not used solely as a residence but are also used for recreational purposes, if such vessels are represented as such person's "legal residence" pursuant to s 327.02(13)(b), F.S. (1984 Supp.); the determination of whether such vessels are represented as a person's legal residence may be based on a combination of the person's subjective intent and objective facts; in addition, the plain statutory language of s 327.60(2) and the inclusion of rights of anchorage as an element of the exercise of rights of navigation compel the conclusion that a municipality is prohibited from regulating the anchorage of non-live-aboard vessels when such anchorage is incident to the exercise of rights of navigation.

Sincerely,

Jim Smith
Attorney General

Prepared by:

Kent L. Weissinger
Assistant Attorney General
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Old 16-06-2008, 02:41   #3
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You can't fight city hall, BUT .....

..... You can EXPOSE it!!

Logically how can a community goverment accept the benefit of a "navibable waterway"--then use (abuse) their police power to regulate the vessels on the waterway-- by labeling them "residents",....and

Because generally, the Cruiser /resident does not vote in the community---

and the percieved lack of voice of the Cruiser--

{The Smart Communities welcome the visitor--Once filed, a pilot can clear Canadian Customs with a phone call--}

Know this forum is for the fun-side--but a fact-based-thread--

1. Name and location of Community--City of Marathon, Marathon Key, Florida

2. Action against Vessel---City is acting to regulate anchorage, by six months limit

3. Effect on full time cruiser--disruption of vessel anchorage-

Hey Gord--a tip--As stated in the AG Opinion--

The Vessel's "intent" controls --so to anyone who raises the issue of "live-aboard"--

reply serenly-- If you reply--this vessel is a "full time Cruiser"--Florida Law also says--
If its got a motor--its not your home--

Lex
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Old 16-06-2008, 04:13   #4
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You would think that with the current state of affairs in Florida, the economy, that small town would welcome anyone with a wallet that doesn't use local (taxpayer funded) services.
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Old 16-06-2008, 04:58   #5
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Follow LexLocal's advice..

And be sure to read F.S 327.60

Jim Lowry
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Old 16-06-2008, 05:16   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LexLocal View Post
... Hey Gord--a tip--As stated in the AG Opinion--
The Vessel's "intent" controls --so to anyone who raises the issue of "live-aboard"--
reply serenly-- If you reply--this vessel is a "full time Cruiser"--Florida Law also says--
If its got a motor--its not your home--
Lex
Would you advise adding (full time cruiser) "In Transit"; or would that limit your options - perhaps forcing you to move on?
thanks,
Gord
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Old 16-06-2008, 05:27   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowryjim View Post
Follow LexLocal's advice..
And be sure to read F.S 327.60
Jim Lowry
Florida Statutes: 327.60 Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : flsenate.gov

The National Marine Manufacturers Association (NMMA) wants to help fight Anchoring Restrictions:

David Dickerson, NMMA’s director of state government relations says that the “NMMA will be glad to begin the process of alerting officials of the new law, but needs to know which cities are actively enforcing anchorage restrictions.”

If you have been forced to “move it along” while in navigation or gunkholing in Florida, please let Dickerson know where and when it happened. He can be reached at ddickerson@nmma.org or at
202-737-9761.

Read the letter below that NMMA attorneys will be sending to offending municipalities:

June 27, 2006
Dear [City / County Attorney],
Our firm represents the National Marine Manufacturers Association (NMMA). NMMA is the nation’s largest recreational marine industry association, representing over 1,600 boat builders, engine manufacturers, and marine accessory manufacturers. NMMA members collectively produce more than 80 percent of all recreational marine products made in the United States. Recreationalboating is a popular American pastime, with almost 71 million boaters nationwide and over 13 million registered boats. In 2004, Florida ranked as the top state for boat registrations with over
946,000 boats registered. The recreational boating industry is a substantial contributor to the nation’s economy with expenditures on recreational marine products and services of over $37 billion in 2005 alone. In addition, the Florida Legislature recently determined that the annual economic impact of boating on the state of Florida was $14 billion.
Several boating advocates have called to our attention your ordinance related to [insert ordinance description and citation].
Because of a 2006 amendment to the Florida Statutes by the adoption of chapter 2006-309, Laws of Florida, we believe your ordinance is likely inconsistent with Florida law effective July 1, 2006.
Chapter 2006-309 amends chapter 327.60, Florida Statutes, as follows:
(2) Nothing contained in the provisions of this section shall be
construed to prohibit local governmental authorities from the
enactment or enforcement of regulations which prohibit or restrict
the mooring or anchoring of floating structures or live-aboard
vessels within their jurisdictions or of any vessels within the marked
boundaries of mooring fields permitted as provided in s. 327.40.
However, local governmental authorities are prohibited from
regulating the anchoring outside of such mooring fields anchorage of
non-live-aboard vessels engaged in the exercise of rights of
navigation.1
Pursuant to this statutory amendment, a local government’s anchoring ordinance may apply to anyvessels anchored in a mooring field; however, outside of mooring fields, an anchoring ordinance may only apply to floating structures2 or live-aboard vessels.3 Prior to the new legislative change,
the law required non-live-aboard vessels to be “engaged in the exercise of rights of navigation” to fall outside of a local government’s right to regulate its anchoring. This new law, however, prohibits a local government from enacting or enforcing an anchoring ordinance against any vessel which is not being used as a live-aboard residence outside of a mooring field.
The issue of whether a vessel is a live-aboard or non-live-aboard vessel is a question of fact relating to the boater’s intent; the size or type of vessel is irrelevant. Even a yacht with a full kitchen and sleeping quarters fails to qualify as a live-aboard vessel if the boater does not intend to reside in the
vessel for an “unlimited time” or use the vessel “solely as a residence.” See footnote 2, infra. Thus
1 Underlined and strike-through language represents the chapter 2006-309 amendments to chapter 327.60.
2 Chapter 327.02(9), Florida Statutes, defines a “floating structure” as a “floating entity, with or without accommodations built thereon, which is not primarily used as a means of transportation on water but which serves
purposes or provides services typically associated with a structure or other improvement to real property.”
3 Chapter 327.02(16), Florida Statutes, narrowly defines “live-aboard vessel” as “any vessel used solely as a residence;”
or “any vessel represented as a place of business, a professional or other commercial enterprise, or a legal residence.”
In Florida, “[a] legal residence is the place where a person has a fixed abode with the present intention of making it their
permanent home.” Perez v. Marti, 770 So.2d 284, 289 (Fla. 3d DCA 2000). The law requires “positive or presumptive proof” of the vessel owner’s intention to remain in the vessel “for unlimited time” in order for it to qualify as a legal residence. Miller v. Gross, 788 So.2d 256, 259 (Fla. 4th DCA 2000).any ordinance that seeks to regulate the anchoring of a vessel outside of a mooring field cannot extend to such vessels.
In sum, the recent legislative amendment prohibits local governments from regulating the anchoring of a vessel outside of a mooring field, unless it is a live-aboard vessel or a floating structure. The [City of / County] ordinance apparently does not comply with this statute because [briefly describe
why it does not comply using the ordinance language].
Therefore, we request that you review your local anchoring ordinance and determine if you agree with NMMA that it does not comply with chapter 327.60, Florida Statutes, amended by chapter 2006-309, Laws of Florida. We believe that your anchoring ordinance regulates non-live-aboard
vessels in a manner that is not allowed by the newly amended statute, and the ordinance thus needst o be amended.
Sincerely,
Wade Hopping, Esq.
David Childs, Esq.
Hopping Green & Sams
On behalf of the National Marine Manufacturers Association

Emphasis (emboldening) mine.
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Old 16-06-2008, 05:32   #8
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I am ALWAYS a full time crusier. And for more information you
may scan or read; Boot Key Harbor Message Board


See the 2007 Florida Statutes 327.60 below... Line for line, it is very clear. Hope this helps.



327.60 Local regulations; limitations.--
(1) The provisions of ss. 327.01, 327.02, 327.30-327.40, 327.44-327.50, 327.54, 327.56, 327.65, 328.40-328.48, 328.52-328.58, 328.62, and 328.64 shall govern the operation, equipment, and all other matters relating thereto whenever any vessel shall be operated upon the waterways or when any activity regulated hereby shall take place thereon. Nothing in these sections shall be construed to prevent the adoption of any ordinance or local law relating to operation and equipment of vessels, except that no such ordinance or local law may apply to the Florida Intracoastal Waterway and except that such ordinances or local laws shall be operative only when they are not in conflict with this chapter or any amendments thereto or regulations thereunder. Any ordinance or local law which has been adopted pursuant to this section or to any other state law may not discriminate against personal watercraft as defined in s. 327.02. Effective July 1, 2006, any ordinance or local law adopted pursuant to this section or any other state law may not discriminate against airboats except by a two-thirds vote of the governing body enacting such ordinance.
(2) Nothing contained in the provisions of this section shall be construed to prohibit local governmental authorities from the enactment or enforcement of regulations which prohibit or restrict the mooring or anchoring of floating structures or live-aboard vessels within their jurisdictions or of any vessels within the marked boundaries of mooring fields permitted as provided in s. 327.40. However, local governmental authorities are prohibited from regulating the anchoring outside of such mooring fields of non-live-aboard vessels in navigation.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Old 16-06-2008, 05:45   #9
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And as I posted on the Book Key Harbor Board...

Stand Up for Your Rights

I have cruised over 125,000 miles. From the Chesapeake Bay to the Keys, the Med. and more.

For many years I always kept a Log Book; however, now I also keep an “Ship’s Orders” book. What is an “Ship’s Orders” book you might ask.

A Ship’s Orders book, tells what can be done and when. It tells what can’t be done and when things must be done.

Some “Orders” are simple, such as Order Number one (1); When sailing, we shall seek anchorage starting at 4 PM (1600 hours) and be anchored by 5 PM (1700 hours).

There are “Orders” for when the workday ends and clean up begins, when to take weather reports, etc.

There are even “Orders” for who can board the vessel, for what reason and when. This includes Local Authorities, FWC, Coast Guard, etc.

In addition to the Ship’s Order book, we now carry (downloaded from the Internet) a print out of Florida Statues as well as Briefs from the Appellate Courts and FWC Policies and General Orders

You see there are very few of us “Billy Jacks” (you’d have to see the movie) around anymore, as most Cruisers would rather leave an area than get into any hassle. And I guess for the most part I don’t blame them.

Years ago all a Cruiser needed to know was the “Rules of the Road”, how to read a chart and know how much scope to put out. Well that was then, this is now. Now Cruisers must know the Federal, State, and local statues of the area they are in.

I have read the letters here and elsewhere, complaining about this cop did this, that cop did that, etc. And I myself have contacted James Knight several times during 2007 regarding the manner in which his FWC Officers conducted themselves. There in, is the reason for a “Book of Orders” for my vessel and a folder containing the Legal Briefs.

You see, not all Officers (Local, State, or Federal) conduct themselves poorly. However, that being said, I do not and will not put up with one who violates the legal statues and/or my legal rights.

Let me ask you this. You live in a home in say Tampa. An Officer from Daytona Beach bangs on your door and demands entry, no if ands or butt’s. What you do?

Now you are saying, but the water is different.

No it is not. But to know and understand that, you must know the law and not even most Lawyers know, because they don't follow it .

Now not only do you need to know the Rules of the Road (which most new boaters don't) or how to anchor, etc. You need to know the law.

You have your vessel’s documents on board don’t you? You have your charts, log book, and ID.

Well today, you must (for your protection) carry copies of F. S. 327.60 as well as other Legal ruling. For the FWC, you can go to their Web Site and get a copy of their “FWC Policies and General Orders ”. This tells the FWC Officers what they can and can not do.

You may also wish to carry with you FWC Inspector General Jim Knight’s phone number (850) 488-6068

Any person (Officer or not) that is Not Authorized to board my vessel is and will be treated as a pirate and the action necessary to repel said pirate will be taken.

If I am anchored in accordance with F.S. 327.60 and this statues states “…local governmental authorities are prohibited from regulating the anchoring outside of such mooring fields of non-live-aboard vessels in navigation.”

I simply tell the “local authorities” (Miami-Dade, Monroe County Sheriff’s Officers, etc.) they are not allow to board my vessel. If they have a problem call FWC.

And as most vessels now days have a cell phone on board, program in FWC’s Inspector General Jim Knight’s phone number (850) 488-6068.

When you see FWC in the area, have your cell phone handy. If approched in any manner than polite, say excuse me while I contact Inspector General Jim Knight’s Office and dial the number. Do not be intimidated just because they have a badge.

If you want to be the Captain of your vessel, then be so. If you feel it is best to run, for the protection of your vessel and crew, then do so.

But when you think “your rights” are being taken away. They are not. They are being given away by those not willing to stand up for them. I for one (of many) am a “Billy Jack” and have and will continue to stand up for my rights.


Jim Lowry (Vet, Disabled)
Marathon Florida
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Old 16-06-2008, 06:06   #10
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Gord--

Debated with another wore-out old Rooster ==retired admiralty Attorney the present issue of city jurisdiction in the Intercoastal Waterway--

Best Position seems to be--Unless the vessel is fixed to the bottom---with pilings --(Meaning the vessel can move} then a city/county/state does not have juridiction to act--Like the numerous Mega Yachts with BVI Registration ---have to leave state waters for a period --so they don't become "residents"--

Distinction -- It is the Vessel that is not the "resident" not the Crew--

So take your vessel out of city/county/state waters---make some calls--give your position---(a fuel reciept is the gold standard)--A vessel is in transit if it can move. Locals can't legally force a vessel to move on--If it has been moving on on a regular basis.

Anywaaay if this isn't the law--it should be----

Lex
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Old 22-06-2008, 06:01   #11
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Jim--

Many thanks for the guidelines in your 06/16/08 post-regarding boarding by Ciy/County/Stae Enforcement Officers--
1. My vesel now has a "Ship's Orders Log"--
2. Copies of Florida Statues and Administrative Regulations regarding Boarding Policy--
3. Inspector General's Cell Phone Number--

All kept with the USCG Rules Book and Vessel documents---

It appears the US Coast Guard --(since transfer to Homeland Security)--has allowed
City/County/State to take over vessel boarding duties--

Wonder if Gord's NMMA Attorney's could get a clear position statement from Florida
about the new vessel boarding policies --at the State, County and City level--

My vessel agrees with all of your Billy Jack positions--

Additionsl tip--if you are boarded--after looking at documentation they will ask to see your driver's license--Tell them it is not avialable-

and keep asking them about depth and position--the boarding officials are in command and responsible for the vessel--

Lex
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Old 22-06-2008, 11:24   #12
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In 1985, then Florida Attorney General Jim Smith sent this letter (prepared by: Kent L. Weissinger Assistant Attorney General) to the City Attorney of Clearwater Fl (Thomas A. Bustin), in which he offered his legal opinion on the following questions:

ARE VESSELS WHICH ARE USED AS A PERSON'S PRIMARY RESIDENCE "LIVE-ABOARD VESSELS" FOR PURPOSES OF s 327.60(2), F.S., EVEN THOUGH THEY MAY ALSO BE USED FOR RECREATIONAL PURPOSES?

WHAT ARE THE RIGHTS OF NAVIGATION WHICH A MUNICIPALITY IS PROHIBITED FROM REGULATING PURSUANT TO s 327.60(2), F.S., WHEN ENGAGED IN BY NON-LIVE-ABOARD VESSELS?

Goto:
Definition of live-aboard vessels” AGO #85-45
Advisory Legal Opinion - Definition of live-aboard vessels
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Old 22-06-2008, 13:46   #13
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One must remember Legal definitions change over time.

That being said. The letter in 1985, could not have been based on either F.S. 327.60 or the resent Court ruling regarding Marco Island.

However, the definition has remained mostly the same

"(a) Any vessel used solely as a residence;"
As you know a Lawyer is a Words Smith. And the Law is ALL about words.
One can define "solely" as being single, for one (1) purpose or use.

If someone uses their vessel for "solely" living on the water; where as, the fishing the people do from the vessel is because they must fish for dinner and not for recreation. Meaning they can not go buy (afford) the fish; Then they could be a live-aboard.

Do they EVER (once a week, month or yes even once a year) use their vessel to maybe go skin diving or moving from point a to point b.

Is there another purpose (duel use) for them being on the vessel? Skin diving, snorkeling, fishing, studying? Anything other than the sole purpose (or use) of living aboard?

Always, ALWAYS know a Lawyer will defend to position of either their client or the side to which they are leaning. For a Lawyer to say otherwise he either is a U. S. S. C Judge or not totally truthful. But of course that fits most of us doesn’t it.
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Old 26-06-2008, 16:29   #14
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Jim--

Thought a lot about this through the cruising years--

Any full time cruising vessel (generally 35 feet and over) will generate hostility underway--"That rich So n'So is flaunting his wealth.... etc".

And the truth is ANY PERSON willing to sell the land assets and accept the risk of Cruising can cast-off....and once out there--all levels of government have a duty as a part of their oath to protect the public saftey-- to support the Cruising Vessel--

Why?
1. We Cruisers are an instant Navy--Ask the 300,000 Brit and French troops rescued at Dunkirk--http://www.harborheroes.org/dunkirk.html--
2. Like General Aviation Pilots --Cruisers are a reserve of experienced boat commanders capable of delivery of tons of (medical) supplies to outa the way places-
3. Cruiser's can assit the true heart of our transport system--the Barge Traffic--After the FLOOD, any Barge Captain would ask for depth reports from the Cruiser--

So let the next Hurricane take out roads, bridges and airports---the Marathon City Fathers will be comin to Jim and his ready to go Vessel-hat in hand --askin you to please stay--

Lex
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