Do you guys really have insurance???

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by dana-tenacity

Dave, you've had a long and difficult life. I had a drunk hit me in his dinghy once ( I repaired the chip in the gelcoat) and that's it.

Not at all mate, that is over 25 year's and 40,000 miles of sailing, 90% in the last 10 years, but I have a big smile about it all.

I was insured.

Dave

[dana-tenacity]

I still reckon that's a pretty good score, mine is 150,000 miles over 30 years.

[cat man do]

Maybe having insurance allowed me to do a few thing's that I would'nt normally have done.

2 of the rig drop's was foolishly pushing the boat, hard.

The rudder was in an uncharted reef area, which got very tight very fast.

Collision's during racing, cause I foolishly held my ground.

I have to say while actually cruising I have had no claim's, apart from the rudder.

So all those other incident's would be in the sailing times around civilization.

Hmmmmmm, better get that boat in the piss and get away from civilization me think's.

Dave

[camaraderie]

CD...you forgot to add your credentials as a solar power guru and an AFOC!! (G)

[dana-tenacity]

We agree there, civilisation sucks.

[seafox]

And you live in Auckland???????

[ssullivan]

Cool, Cruisingdad!

Thanks for that response. I had been curious in general about your work in the industry. I guess we're the same age then.

I have to clean out this inbox... had more than one complaint about that (sorry Captain K!)

I thought you sounded like a writer in general... so I was curious.

I'll clean out my inbox so we don't hijack the thread.

Originally Posted by Cruisingdad

Hi SSulivan,

Just read your post today. Sorry for the late reply. I tried PM you, but your box is full???? Oh well, I will just hijack this thread for a moment. Many apologies to the original poster.

Ok, let's see - my credentials. I have been cruising and sailing large boats since about the mid 90's I guess. We eneded up going F/T liveaboard on our 380 late 90's or early 2000's in SW Fl which we based out of while cruising around with the kiddo - it was one kiddo at the time. He is now 7. So, I guess that was 2000? or so. Also had 2 worthless dogs on board which is a different, and very long story!! We had a lot of fun and really enjoyed oursleves. Ended up even buying a house on the water out there in Cape Coral off of the ICW if you know where that is. It is basically the water side of Ft. Myers in SW Florida.

We have been VERY active in the marine community. I have worked many boat shows for Catalina (as an owner, not a rep of Catalina) over the years - long before we even had kids. After some time, we sold our 380 and were going to buy a trawler for more far off adventures. I really did a lot of research and settled between Nordhavn and Krogen. We lost many offers trying to get one (one BY AN HOUR!) and ended up buying a Catalina 400 instead (this is a very, very, very long story that I will just leave at that).

Since then, I have taken on the role of Technical Editor for Mainsheet. If you do not know what that is, it is the Quarterly Catalina publication for Catalina owners. THe Tech stuff is reviewed by Gerry Douglas - but it is mostly run by the owners. I have put out several other publications in magazines, mostly Latts & Atts, with 4 more coming out who knows when. Most of my Latts & Atts stuff is on cruising with kids and funny (dumb) things on boats. I write my stuff there as Cruisingdad, so you can find it if you look.

I do a LOT of writing outside of these - but it is not sailing related.

As far as an expert - I am not an expert in anything. I learn something new every day. I enjoy speaking with differnt cruisers and people throughout the world about sailing and boating. You will find I often don't agree with many of them - but it is a fun discourse.

I participate in these forums, Mainsheet, Latt's & Atts, etc for one and one reason only: To help out in a industry and lifestyle that I am VERY passionate about... very! There are very few of us that are truly passionate about cruising, don't you think? I try to help and give the best advice I possibly can. I am sure not getting paid for it. Maybe some people will listen, maybe some will not. But different opinions and viewpoints give you more data to make an informed decision.

Why do I do it??? Because I try to help. That is what it is all about: Giving back.

My wife and I are some of the youngest cruisers you will find. I am 36, Kris is 35. We have been very blessed financially and that has allowed us to enter this at a young age. Most of the folks we met out there were 20-30 years older. But no problem for us... still good people and good friends.

The only thing about the internet I do not like is the anonymity. People put on a different face here and say things they would never say in person. That drives me crazy!! With me, what you see is what you get. Come by - say hello. I do not mind. I am very open and enjoy meeting people. I am currently at Cedar Mills Marina in Lake Texoma - where they build the Valiants. I litterally can see them laying up the hulls from my tub. They really helped me outfit my last boat and are really helping on this one too. Great people and great boats.

Our current plan is to finish outfitting the 400 and go off cruising - a lot further and longer this time. I now have 2 kids (3&7), and 2 more worthless dogs (one which is really old and probably will not live long enough to go, and the other that is not the best type of dog to go and will stay with family back home). My mom and dad are retiring and selling their home and are (even as we speak... hopefully... fingers crossed) buying a boat to go cruising with us.

You will see me mention this a lot in Sailnet: I AM VERY EXCITED!! Most people have to leave their family behind to go cruising... ours are going with us!!! I have never run across this, in all my years of boating. Have you!!!?? (smile).

So, that is me. It is very long and maybe too detailed, but you asked! If you are ever anywhere near Cedar Mills, come on by and say hello. I love meeting people I chat with here and on sailnet.

Take care. Enjoy speaking with you and everyone else.

- Brian/CD

[dana-tenacity]

Whangaparao is 20 mins north of Auckland, I look for excuses not to go there.

[Cruisingdad]

Cam,

Not sure they would know what an AFOC is here. Too bad too. It is my best credential and the hardest earned!! HAHA!

- CD

Ok, we will leave this thread alone... no more hijacking.

[TabbyCat]

Hi, I'm new to the forum, and thought I've give you my perspective on insurance, from an insurance agent's point of view.

1. Rates are based on the value of your vessel, your navigation territory, and your experience. A boat insured for a cost of $2,000 in the Chesapeake could cost as much as $5,000 to insure in Florida or the Caribbean with the same owners.

2. Marine Insurance for vessels over 26' is subject to International Maritime Law, not state law. So it's not regulated by the states like small boat insurance. This means that the buyer should beware- there have been some shady characters out there selling fake policies. You should always ask for a copy of the policy booklet, find out where the company is located, and what their S&P rating is.

3. You can reduce your rate by increasing your deductible and/or agreeing to stay out of the hurricane box during hurricane season. You should try to think of marine insurance as protection against a catastophic loss. Filing numerous claims for small amounts will hurt you in the long run with increased rates or even cancellation.

4. For small boats, you should get insurance for the liability portion, since you could be sued by another boater. However, most US companies don't want to write liability only policies, so you go ahead and get the hull coverage anyway.

5. Auto insurance companies do write boat policies, but they are usually actual cash value (subject to depreciation). That's fine for your runabout, but not the boat that you've invested your life savings in.

Disclaimer: I used to be the General Manager at International Marine Insurance; Since I'm out cruising on TabbyCat, I demoted myself to "Floating Salesperson". We work with about 30 differnt companies and are the exclusive agent for Markel Jackline. If anyone wants a quote, just drop me an e-mail.

Fair Winds,
Susan
International Marine Insurance Services
susan@IMIScorp.net

[ssullivan]

Originally Posted by TabbyCat

5. Auto insurance companies do write boat policies, but they are usually actual cash value (subject to depreciation). That's fine for your runabout, but not the boat that you've invested your life savings in.
Fair Winds,
Susan
International Marine Insurance Services
susan@IMIScorp.net

Thanks for that excellent post, Susan. Very helpful in understanding marine insurance.

Question: I have Allstate giving me loss coverage at an agreed value of $120K. My rate is (as you said) based on experience, agreed loss value, principal areas of operating (northeast, but covers FL), etc... etc... You mention that an automotive company will only cover "actual cash value, subject to depreciation." Would you say this Allstate policy is a rare one for a company that deals primarily in automotive insurance?

[starfish62]

The puzzling thing for us is that the initial quote was fully 10% of what we paid for the vessel. The market value was stated at $75k (US) in the survey, with replacement value at $400K. We asked for a quote based upon what we paid for her, not on replacement value. Boat US is the only quote we've been able to obtain. The carrier on our house, health and three vehicles will not write a policy on a non-trailerable boat. Another carrier said they are not writing policies on boats over 38 feet, and another said they will not issue a policy on a 1983 vessel. We're a bit frustrated, as you might think.

We're about two weeks away from splash, and have spun three 7-foot helixes in with 5/8 ht chain and oversized swivel & shackles, so we think we're pretty tight on the ball, but what if someone hits us and we go down, or get royally banged up? It would be crushing to start over, but the only premium we've been able to obtain was absurd.

We're in south Forida. If anyone has a company to recommend that writes policies in this area, we'd love to hear of them.

[Ex-Calif]

Curmudgeon mode here...

Insurance is a system of risk sharing. Everyone pays in and those that don't have a loss pay for those that do have a loss. Insurance companies take a cut for their part in the process.

The issue is that those in low risk areas should not have to pay for those in high risk areas. If insurance companies split the risk among everyone, it would be a nano-second when somebody would serve the low risk area only and thereby win the market. In very high risk areas some insurance companies will pull out, others will raise rates exhorbitantly. It's the insurance business, not the insurance hobby.

Supply and demand at it's best. My wife was an agent in Hawaii for a couple of years - home and auto. Very small market and very high rates.

Liability protection, especially in the US's litigous world, is pretty important as you may end up having to pay someone else's loss and you have no idea what a civil jury might award. The good news about sailboats is that it's very hard to kill someone with one which is where big judgements come in.

Hull insurance is the wild card. If you have everything invested in your boat and have no tolerance to start over, you may want to protect this risk. But remember that insurance companies don't generally lose money. If you boat is comprehensively insured, someone is making a profit from you unless you suffer a loss.

I can't see myself ever insuring the hull. Even if I eventually live in it. Starting over or <shudder> moving ashore will be the option.

[TabbyCat]

Originally Posted by ssullivan

Thanks for that excellent post, Susan. Very helpful in understanding marine insurance.

Question: I have Allstate giving me loss coverage at an agreed value of $120K. My rate is (as you said) based on experience, agreed loss value, principal areas of operating (northeast, but covers FL), etc... etc... You mention that an automotive company will only cover "actual cash value, subject to depreciation." Would you say this Allstate policy is a rare one for a company that deals primarily in automotive insurance?

I would say that there's a possibility that it's agreed value with a long list of items subject to depreciation. You have to read the policy booklet to be sure- there should be a section that is titled "payments". Allstate tends to be very inexpensive, but often can't cover you very far offshore, or cover higher valued vessels. But if you fit within their program limits, more power to you!

Fair Winds,
Susan

[TabbyCat]

Originally Posted by starfish62

The puzzling thing for us is that the initial quote was fully 10% of what we paid for the vessel. The market value was stated at $75k (US) in the survey, with replacement value at $400K. We asked for a quote based upon what we paid for her, not on replacement value. Boat US is the only quote we've been able to obtain. The carrier on our house, health and three vehicles will not write a policy on a non-trailerable boat. Another carrier said they are not writing policies on boats over 38 feet, and another said they will not issue a policy on a 1983 vessel. We're a bit frustrated, as you might think.

We're about two weeks away from splash, and have spun three 7-foot helixes in with 5/8 ht chain and oversized swivel & shackles, so we think we're pretty tight on the ball, but what if someone hits us and we go down, or get royally banged up? It would be crushing to start over, but the only premium we've been able to obtain was absurd.

We're in south Forida. If anyone has a company to recommend that writes policies in this area, we'd love to hear of them.

Starfish,
I'll send you an off-line message and see if there's anything I can do.
~ Susan