Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by garrobito

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I was a free liveaboard when no marina have any service and when was allowed around the world but have a difference between that or anchor for few days and make a community for years on public waters.
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The capsize word pointed that..

Some of my lack of agreement with your statements may be a result of not understanding your writing. Take a moment to read what you have written before you post.

It might be that, in summary, we both support the freedom of anchoring and we both disapprove of criminal behavior.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

we both support the freedom of anchoring .

Only if its a Mantus.
I mean..........really!

[Saleen411]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

Ah the delta tunnels, there's a hot bed of discussion. The main effect on the water ways will be the lock installed on the back side of franks track. and increased salinity further up the rivers. Not a problem at all when the folks want to send water south to LA.

Plus all the material removed from the twin 40 foot diameter 30 mile long tunnels, truck traffic, etc. That's going to be fun. The tunnels will divert fresh water further up the sacramento at courtland and divert it to the existing pumps at tracy where the pumps send it to LA. Currently the US EPA is against it as it will do more harm to the delta habitat. The study has gone back for a rewrite/ redesign at this time.

There are a few boats that have been living aboard for 30 years in the delta. Moving about does seem to keep the law away. I would get bored sitting in one place.

Hi All,

Newbie here....

As a waterfront owning resident of Discovery Bay, this tunnel issue is of concern to most all of us locals. Here is a link that may add some insight...


Stop the Tunnels

Jer

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by robert.hamic

Hmmm. It always surprises me when people aren't appreciated for what they bring to a community in terms of tourism and money. We are new to the cursing life and look forward to spending a few months on the ICW before we make our crossing to spend a year in the Caribbean. I guess I never thought about how we would be received. We like our boat and it is not like we are tying a mattress to the top of it. But... We do have 2 kids and a big dog that make a lot of noise and have been known to walk around without pants. Do the townsfolk look at us as the Beverly Hillbillies of the sea? Ugh. That would suck. We planned to make some accommodations for folks until we got on the open water such as washing our clothes at a laundry mat as opposed to the water and not line drying. We hoped to do a lot of touristy things such as sightseeing because my kids haven't spend much time in Florida. Joe Dirt might say, "Daaaaaaang!" I am feeling kind of sad after reading a few pages of this thread.

Don't worry. You sound like a cruiser and cruisers are generally welcomed.

The term liveaboard has generally come to be used to refer to guys get ahold derelick boats and anchoring for months on end never moving and generally make a nuisance of themselves. Do that and expect to be asked to move along.

[Miniyot]

Originally Posted by leightonyachts

...since when do I not have the right to be on my boat 24-7 when I pay for the slip 24-7 already? liveaboard or no liveaboard, I am paying for the slip and the utilities. But the "dock cops" ( gestapo spies) are making sure you are not staying on your boat more than 7 days a month? So does that mean I get a refund if I am only using my boat 1/3rd of the time that I am paying for the slip? ahhhh of course not.

And we all sit back and let these marinas do this do us. ayayay

Do you "park" your boat there, or do you remove your boat from their slip when you leave? How about your car......should you be allowed to park your car anywhere you want and not pay the owner of the property? Dude...if you owned a trailer and did not have your own property to store it, should you be allowed to store it somewhere else for free?

What I see in this post is someone who thinx they should get everything they want for nothing. It is people with this kind of attitude that makes may "land lubbers" hate live aboards.

Just to prove my point.....can I store a 50 horsepower outboard in your boat for free, AND my 20 year old, half flat rib on your deck for free? If I am not using it I shouldn't have to pay you.....
I also have a 25 foot camper trailer. Can I park it in your driveway at your house for free but only pay you a few bucks each day that I actually visit and use it?

[dwedeking2]

Originally Posted by Miniyot

Do you "park" your boat there, or do you remove your boat from their slip when you leave? How about your car......should you be allowed to park your car anywhere you want and not pay the owner of the property? Dude...if you owned a trailer and did not have your own property to store it, should you be allowed to store it somewhere else for free?

What I see in this post is someone who thinx they should get everything they want for nothing. It is people with this kind of attitude that makes may "land lubbers" hate live aboards.

Just to prove my point.....can I store a 50 horsepower outboard in your boat for free, AND my 20 year old, half flat rib on your deck for free? If I am not using it I shouldn't have to pay you.....
I also have a 25 foot camper trailer. Can I park it in your driveway at your house for free but only pay you a few bucks each day that I actually visit and use it?

But in California the Coastal Commission limits the amount of "for-profit" areas and then provides free/low cost anchorages (creating a scarce resource without the associated costs). If free market was allowed to set the standard it would smoothly match the economic/social demographics of the landbased demographic of the area. The poors then could anchor in areas that more closely matched their demographic (Chula Vista/Oakland type areas) and not upset the aristocratic society of San Fran area (your naive if you think there is equality in America or another other state in the world, money sets you apart).

By the way, the codes in San Diego are such that you can't park that trailer next to your house for too long a period, so those poors will stay away.

[Hudson Force]

Over the last fifty years I have seen a change in the manner in which people expect to be entitled to the use of public land and public waterways. Many people now seem to be less assertive of their right to wander free across the land or water. This seems to be partly a result of less comfort with being independent. I once met a young man who drove from Miami to our rented cabin in central Florida and he expressed his anxiety of driving to an area outside his cell phone coverage and then he spoke of his real fear when he noticed that there were no power line poles lining the edge of the road.

As a young man fifty years ago, I would head out into the Everglades, camping on bits of dry land hammocks, without a concern for not seeing other people for days. Now, young people are appalled that I dare to drive away from my home without a cell phone.

It's true, cruisers used to sail about for long periods of time anchoring in wilderness areas with a sense of freedom and entitlement. Many still do and many still expect this entitlement to anchor in public waterways in developed areas. Presently, it's still possible to drive on public highways and park your car in most areas without a fee. This is not related to parking in someone's driveway or tying to a private dock.

It would be a sad outcome if people lose the right to rove about and even more sorrowful if they develop a fear of independent wandering. Already, many people can't be comfortable without a smart phone in their hands.

[Crosis]

Sadly this often comes down to money. I grew up in Miami and we had our yacht on Pier 3 in the Dinner Key Marina. The marina and the sailing club next to it are protected by barrier islands. The area outside of the islands were used as free moorings for many years. The city officials spent years and tax dollars persecuting the live aboards claiming they were a hazard to navigation. Fast forward 35 years and the map below shows you how the city evicted the roughly 25 navigational hazards who were not paying taxes and installed a 225 boat mooring field 4 times larger than was occupied before and called a hazard. Of course the city was able to turn free anchorage into a mooring that nets them big bucks. For those of us who watched it develop over the decades from the original battle to the final outcome it was a fine example of governmental corruption and the loss of citizens rights.

[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by garrobito

... I do not like free liveaboard over the water using the water as an excuse to steal, do drugs (sorry mate I do not like drugs in front of my children), smoke pot (I do not care if now is legal.. I do not want it close to me..), have sex, bring hookers, and not paid for the marine services (including use the shower) who I paid for...
Sorry if you dislike my comment, but have a huge difference between simply anchor to enjoy the place, take few picture, make tourism and anchor a boat at the end of his lifetime, then anchor another one, cover with plastic tarp and stay there... for years...
They're not sailors, they're not boat who are on a trip.. they're homeless in a boat...
Boats on richardson bay...it's a liability for navigation and raised safety concern about sinking and contaminate the bay...
The capsize word pointed that..

So basically you can only tolerate others who are just like yourself?

[garrobito]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

So basically you can only tolerate others who are just like yourself?

\


if you dislike my comment, feel free to ignore it...

[Julie Mor]

I just did a Google image search for "liveaboards". I can see why they would be unwanted or disliked. The boats are way too big!

[Hard Rock Candy]

Ive spent most of my sailing days in the Eastern Carribean and in Florida. Ive never had any problem with living aboard for periods of time for up to 7 months. In Mexico, there are thousands of small inlets and bays to anchor in for free. The little towns close by welcome you to come and spend money and visit. The people feel that anybody with a cruising boat is wealthy or at least has a better economy than they do. and they are very friendly when you treat them as friends. the Rio Dulce in Guat is a lovely place to anchor out and fish for months on end. Even if you just shop in town for food, you are helping the people there live better. Honduras is similar and Belize is similar. I lived in the middle of Stuart Florida for 6 months anchored in one spot close to a park. They had a dingy dock and free water. There was a problem there, in that there were a lot of Junk boats anchored there. People that were fairly poor had bought them and some were fixing them, but most were never even visited. some were half full of water. I can easily see both sides of this quandary. In the Keys there was a lagoon with a party bar at the end. There were almost 200 boats anchored there. I loved the place, but the tide never actually washed out the lagoon. With that many boats draining their refuse into the water, It was a nasty place to fall in the water. Some people can make it with peace and honor, others can not. What is the answer? Mac

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

Over the last fifty years I have seen a change in the manner in which people expect to be entitled to the use of public land and public waterways. Many people now seem to be less assertive of their right to wander free across the land or water. This seems to be partly a result of less comfort with being independent. I once met a young man who drove from Miami to our rented cabin in central Florida and he expressed his anxiety of driving to an area outside his cell phone coverage and then he spoke of his real fear when he noticed that there were no power line poles lining the edge of the road.

As a young man fifty years ago, I would head out into the Everglades, camping on bits of dry land hammocks, without a concern for not seeing other people for days. Now, young people are appalled that I dare to drive away from my home without a cell phone.

It's true, cruisers used to sail about for long periods of time anchoring in wilderness areas with a sense of freedom and entitlement. Many still do and many still expect this entitlement to anchor in public waterways in developed areas. Presently, it's still possible to drive on public highways and park your car in most areas without a fee. This is not related to parking in someone's driveway or tying to a private dock.

It would be a sad outcome if people lose the right to rove about and even more sorrowful if they develop a fear of independent wandering. Already, many people can't be comfortable without a smart phone in their hands.

I imagine there are people lacking the confidence and ability to 'wander'. But, the biggest part of our problem is - at least in the U.S. - law enforcement. Almost every law enforcement agency in this country has enforcement units plying waterways of every type. Whether they are right or wrong in telling us we cannot anchor in a particular location, or we can anchor for only so long doesn't matter. Talk back or try to assert the rights you believe are yours and a number of things can happen. At minimum a citation is issued. Worse, arrest and impoundment of your boat. The rights of law enforcement officers and ourselves are muddled with contradictions. A worse case example is Richardson Bay in Sausalito, Ca.. When we'd like to see effective enforcement and management in this kind of over the board scenario, there appears to be none. But, drop the hook in the Alameda estuary for lunch and just watch what happens next...

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by Hard Rock Candy

Ive spent most of my sailing days in the Eastern Carribean and in Florida. Ive never had any problem with living aboard for periods of time for up to 7 months. In Mexico, there are thousands of small inlets and bays to anchor in for free. The little towns close by welcome you to come and spend money and visit. The people feel that anybody with a cruising boat is wealthy or at least has a better economy than they do. and they are very friendly when you treat them as friends. the Rio Dulce in Guat is a lovely place to anchor out and fish for months on end. Even if you just shop in town for food, you are helping the people there live better. Honduras is similar and Belize is similar. I lived in the middle of Stuart Florida for 6 months anchored in one spot close to a park. They had a dingy dock and free water. There was a problem there, in that there were a lot of Junk boats anchored there. People that were fairly poor had bought them and some were fixing them, but most were never even visited. some were half full of water. I can easily see both sides of this quandary. In the Keys there was a lagoon with a party bar at the end. There were almost 200 boats anchored there. I loved the place, but the tide never actually washed out the lagoon. With that many boats draining their refuse into the water, It was a nasty place to fall in the water. Some people can make it with peace and honor, others can not. What is the answer? Mac

I guess if nobody else would liked to have anchored in your 'one spot' during the 6 months you were there, no problem. But, c'mon this is part of the problem. Move around for gosh sake.

[sailorboy1]

The closest I've had to a problem with "law enforcement" in the past 7 years is while at anchor the harbormaster swinging by and asking if I needed anything.

I think the law enforcement"problem" is very greatly overblown.