Pantaenius Marine Insurance and the Gulf Coast

[northwestsailor]

Perhaps I should be happy that "Pants" wont insure my boat. I don't like companies that kick you when you are down.

[BobnCamie]

I asked for a quote when we bought our current boat. I was shopping around and "pants"was the only one that would not give me a quote, in other words, turned down. Having never been turned down before, I called and after talking to 3 different people(I think) I was informed they would or could not insure a boat under $50,000. I bought a barely used 1984 S-2. I am very happy I do not own a newer boat, as I do not feel insurance premiums should be close to 10% of boat values. I know people that own $250,000 boats and are afraid to use them for fear of a claim.kinda takes the fun out, I think.


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[Polux]

Originally Posted by BobnCamie

I asked for a quote when we bought our current boat. I was shopping around and "pants"was the only one that would not give me a quote, in other words, turned down. Having never been turned down before, I called and after talking to 3 different people(I think) I was informed they would or could not insure a boat under $50,000. I bought a barely used 1984 S-2. I am very happy I do not own a newer boat, as I do not feel insurance premiums should be close to 10% of boat values. I know people that own $250,000 boats and are afraid to use them for fear of a claim.kinda takes the fun out, I think.

I don't understand what you mean regarding a Premium of about 10% of boat value. The insurance premium on a boat generally increases perceptually regarding boat value when the boat ages due to a bigger overall risk. That is what happens with Pantaenius.

I have a 7 year old boat insured by Pantaenius for all except war and the Premium is about 1.25% of boat value. Probably in a brand new boat it would be less. If they refused to insure your boat because they don't insure old boats how do you know what is the % Premium they would charge if they would accept that? From where come those 10%?

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Polux

.
I have a 7 year old boat insured by Pantaenius for all except war and the Premium is about 1.25% of boat value. ...

Sorry this is wrong. After checking it is :0,9%

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Polux

Sorry this is wrong. After checking it is :0,9%

The percentshge tends to go down as the value of the goes up.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Paul L

The percentshge tends to go down as the value of the goes up.

Sure, You risk as much to damage a 3 million yacht with a new 44ft or with a very old 44ft (probably more) and the premium for that will be independent of the boat value, so if a new boat worth 20 times more than the older one, the percentage for that regarding the older one should be 20 times bigger since the risk is the same.

[jmtindle3]

Try Falvey Yacht Insurance. US company with great rates. Agent in Florida is Coastal insurance Delray Beach FL ask for Anthony Ballinger 561 305 2540 I just buy insurance have no other connection

[Dr. Sea]

Originally Posted by BandB

As to value in the event of a total loss, it is not going to exceed market value. Boats depreciate just as cars do. Stated value is not guaranteed value.

I believe you are confusing Agreed Value with Market Value. Market value changes with depreciation. Agreed Value is based on the agreement at the issuing of the policy. If you agree on, say, $400,000, then your premiums are based on that amount. Otherwise, what does the word "agree" mean?

[hellosailor]

Doc-
You've come across a five year dead thread. But in answer to your question, I had an interesting discussion with a "top name" insurer a couple of years ago, about "agreed value" coverage. They will issue it, and they will charge you based on that number, but when it is time to pay? Their policy actually defines agreed value as "agreed value or market replacement value whichever is less" and good luck if they decide your boat is the same as a cruelly neglected similar boat.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Doc-
You've come across a five year dead thread. But in answer to your question, I had an interesting discussion with a "top name" insurer a couple of years ago, about "agreed value" coverage. They will issue it, and they will charge you based on that number, but when it is time to pay? Their policy actually defines agreed value as "agreed value or market replacement value whichever is less" and good luck if they decide your boat is the same as a cruelly neglected similar boat.

Well presumably you would read the policy definitions before purchasing and realize that a policy with the agreed value definition you gave is not an agreed value policy by most normal policies. My policy defines agreed value as the value stated under category A on the declarations page. That's a specific, single number.

[hellosailor]

Paul-
Most people (if that many) only read th enumbers, to see if they are getting the amount of coverage they wanted. Very few read the nasty details and definitions. And, I can tell you that the insurers are one of many trade groups who instruct their typesetters or designers to make the definitions as difficult to read as possible, while complying with the carious laws meant to ensure they could be easily read.

Read the details? Uh-uh, doesn't happen, and the insurers are counting on that.

On top of that, you usually won't be able to even SEE a policy until you've bought it. Oh sure, you can cancel out and make the panic scramble to get new coverage...but most folks don't even see that intimidating paper until after they've paid for it. Another intentional step, by the insurers.

Insurers often make good money. And they do it by placing hardball.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Paul-
Most people (if that many) only read th enumbers, to see if they are getting the amount of coverage they wanted. Very few read the nasty details and definitions. And, I can tell you that the insurers are one of many trade groups who instruct their typesetters or designers to make the definitions as difficult to read as possible, while complying with the carious laws meant to ensure they could be easily read.

Read the details? Uh-uh, doesn't happen, and the insurers are counting on that.

On top of that, you usually won't be able to even SEE a policy until you've bought it. Oh sure, you can cancel out and make the panic scramble to get new coverage...but most folks don't even see that intimidating paper until after they've paid for it. Another intentional step, by the insurers.

Insurers often make good money. And they do it by placing hardball.

I've always been given a copy of the policy prior to purchase for all offshore policies I've purchased or been offered. Marine insurance is essentially unregulated, so every policy is very different. Without reading the policy you have no idea what you are purchasing or what is covered. The policy tells you both your responsibility and the insurers responsibility.
An example is coverage for a lightning strike. One policy doubles the stated deductible for a strike, the other reduces the deductible to smaller fixed amount.

[Captain Bill]

I have been on Pantaenius US insurance since 2015 and have been paying about 1.25% of agreed value in years I stayed above 30.5 N during hurricane season and about 1.75% of agreed hull value during years when I stayed in Florida during hurricane season. I decided to change plans and stay in Florida this summer and my agent informed me that Pantaenius was non-renewing any policy with any exposure below 30.5 N any time of year, not just hurricane season. So anyone who ever wants to use their boat below Fernandina beach in Florida or the Gulf of Mexico and has Pantaenius insurance had better prepare to go shopping. Also get ready for some sticker shock. The quotes I have gotten so far are running about 6.3% of value and do not cover some of the Bahamas. One that was only 5% had no Bahamas coverage.

[accomplice]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

I have been on Pantaenius US insurance since 2015 and have been paying about 1.25% of agreed value in years I stayed above 30.5 N during hurricane season and about 1.75% of agreed hull value during years when I stayed in Florida during hurricane season. I decided to change plans and stay in Florida this summer and my agent informed me that Pantaenius was non-renewing any policy with any exposure below 30.5 N any time of year, not just hurricane season. So anyone who ever wants to use their boat below Fernandina beach in Florida or the Gulf of Mexico and has Pantaenius insurance had better prepare to go shopping. Also get ready for some sticker shock. The quotes I have gotten so far are running about 6.3% of value and do not cover some of the Bahamas. One that was only 5% had no Bahamas coverage.

We have Pantaenius, 1.32%, and per our policy we need to be North of 30.5 between 15 July and 1 November.

[Captain Bill]

Originally Posted by accomplice

We have Pantaenius, 1.32%, and per our policy we need to be North of 30.5 between 15 July and 1 November.

That's what my current policy says as well, but as I stated my broker has informed me that next year the cruising limit will be 30.5N any time. It was not clear to me that was even an option next year for me, as she stated that any boat that had exposure below 30.5n this year will not be renewed.