Netherland and Belgium registration will be stopped

[gmakhs]

Every flag has its issues , I will be looking for a new flag in 6 years , currently my boat is registered under Greek flag , which is really cheap and needs only safety gear for pleasure boats under 12 metters .
But has an strong issue every 8 years the boat must pass inspection for seaworthiness the cost is about 150 euro (really low ) but it must be done by a Greek surveyor in Greek water something thats really frustrating for a boat with international.sailing permit .

[seadago]

The attached doc from RYA is informative. From what I gather, as far as the UK is concerned, nothing will change with brexit from the present situation, as all registration and/or ownership legislation complies with the UN UNCLOS treaty, to which everyone is a signatory. Well, almost everyone.
If nothing indeed changes with brexit, then registering the boat under the SSR (part III) of the British Shipping Registry, may be an option. It is easy and inexpensive. There are some conditions, evidently, but not stringent.
Mind, this is only for the boat's registration (flag). It's not proof of ownership. When sailing away from UK home waters, you'll still need to show a bill of sale and (probably) also a VAT paid receipt.

[dutch-barge]

an ICP is a declaration ownership
Being registered in the Kadaster is the only way a boat is really registered, just like any other property.
It takes a notaris to do this. The boat if it does not have a Dutch branding ( brandmerk) it has to applied by them.
ANY nationality can get a boat registered that way, providing you use a Dutch address, the notary might oblige.
There are Notary ( attorney specializing in documentation ) who specialize in this.

[TonyBoat]

Update on the Dutch ICP and Belgium registration

It is correct that the Belgium flag registration can only be used now by Belgium citizens or Belgium companies.

The Dutch ICP registration is a boat ownership document and not an actual flag registration. However, in this capacity, it is accepted in most countries in Europe without any issues.

Since the Dutch government decided to change the description of the flag on the registration form from Dutch to Not Applicable in 2018, there have been 2 countries that have issues with the Dutch ICP; Portugal immediately notified all boat owners that they no longer accepted the Dutch ICP as a valid document in their waters and last month, Italy started to notify some boat owners of the same. In Italy, it currently depends on which port your vessel is based but I expect this to get worse over time.

There is however a simple solution for anybody who needs to find another solution versus the Dutch ICP; you can register in Poland and have an actual flag registration that is valid around the world and for the life of your boat. You will find several companies that offer help with the Polish registration and it is only slightly more expensive then the Dutch ICP.

Hope this helps!

[dutch-barge]

Again an ICP in the Netherlands is NOT a FOOLPROOF way of showing ownership.
ONLY registration in 'het kadaster' is and then the boat is properly flagged

It has been historically accepted, but the rules are getting more properly applied.

So get your boat properly flagged and register it on 'get kadaster'. just as you'd register a house there

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by gaucho

Like anybody really cares for a private yacht. Flag registration might be important for commercial vessels. Private yachts, really, who the hell cares. All the people who think that "countries" back them because they flag this or that flag. Pffff. Don't be ridiculous. People have passports and embassies and that's what kicks into action. The flag of a private yacht is really irrelevant. It's just a bureocracy that being such a small "market", no nation really cares that much, and thus, there's a lot of unfulfilled needs. That's why the Dutch ICP has been successful, or Belgian flag, or Langkawi, etc. There is a need for "a flag of convenience" because sometimes rules are shitty bureocracy. For example you can be a legal US Resident and still not have a "valid/legal" (again, in your judgmental eyes) registration because you are not a US CITIZEN. This is 1890s bureocracy, with no real raison d'etre today.

Most people I know flying some sort of flag of convenience (iuncluding state reg in the US) including myself do it becasue we haven't found a way to do it legally. Boats don't have nationalities ... people do.

You may be interested to learn that a vessel's claimed flag state matters a lot from an international waters law enforcement standpoint, even for a small sailboat. We had a whole division in the Coast Guard that requested a statement of no objection from a flag state before we could do much in the way of boardings beyond verifying the nameplate and flag of the vessel. If it was found to be stateless (meaning when we asked for an SNO the claimed flag country couldn't verify that it was actually flagged with them) we could pretty much do anything within the realm of reason (and in some cases outside the realm IMO, some pretty destructive testing of sailboats looking for hidden compartments has happened, basically destroying the boat). If they did claim claim the vessel the flag country could reject the SNO, in which case we basically had to turn it over to the State Dept and we were basically done. Or they could put limits on what we could do. If they were U.S. flagged it was the same as any boarding in U.S. waters. This was predominantly 50' and below pleasure vessels, commercial vessels operate on a pretty rigorous inspection protocol and aren't often boarded at sea unless it's some odd situation. Pretty much any country's Navy/Coast Guard follows a similar protocol. The nationality of the crew themselves was pretty much completely irrelevant unless we needed to make an arrest.

So TLDR, you don't want to be able to be declared a stateless vessel, it can turn out very badly for you, and flag can matter a whole lot for a sailboat in international waters.

[BigNurse]

I’m going to buy a new Moody DS54 this year, and what I can’t understand all this **** about flags of different countries, or some italian telling that he/she don’t flag the ship in Italy “because the corruption”...this its just crap, sorry to say.
I’m spanish, born in Spain, and live in Spain, and my boat will be in a spanish harbour permanently.
I will pay my taxes, put spanish plate numbers on it, a nice spanish flag in the stern, full insurance to cover everything, and THATS ALL.
I will NOT be any worried not for “corrupted state”, nor worried for any Tax Officials, nor any Police, because I will have my papers totally legal, all documents correct, and all paid as by law requeriments, and I will sleep in the night like a baby.
All this **** of looking for a belgian/duch flag, or Gernsey, or Malta, or whatever place its just a black way of scape to pay due taxes, from my point of view.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Seymore

Why don't you register the boat Italian?

Ditto that!

Kind of obvious choice to flag the vessel the same as your nationality, instead of pursuing some flag of convenience with its host of maritime and legal issues.

[TonyBoat]

I think it is important to understand that when you choose to register your vessel under a different flag than your home country this is 1/ completely legal 2/ mostly not done for tax evasion but more for bureaucracy evasion from inept government institutions.

Spain is the perfect example of this; when you buy a vessel in Spain it will take months to get it licensed (bureaucracy) while they have invented maritime zones for boats. This means, for instance, you can buy a 12-meter fishing boat but often can not fish further from shore then 2, 5 or 12 miles out. Yes, you can change this for a little fee of around 4000 euro if you are lucky.

If this is fine for you and you have tons of time to waste while waiting to register your boat in Spain or Italy go for it, but all others I recommend to register your boat legally under a different European flag (like Poland) and pay 499 euro for a lifetime of the registration and receive your official European registration in about 5 days.

You can then say goodbye to all maritime zones and go fishing or sailing wherever you want!

Stay Safe!

[mikedefieslife]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

You may be interested to learn that a vessel's claimed flag state matters a lot from an international waters law enforcement standpoint, even for a small sailboat. We had a whole division in the Coast Guard that requested a statement of no objection from a flag state before we could do much in the way of boardings beyond verifying the nameplate and flag of the vessel. If it was found to be stateless (meaning when we asked for an SNO the claimed flag country couldn't verify that it was actually flagged with them) we could pretty much do anything within the realm of reason (and in some cases outside the realm IMO, some pretty destructive testing of sailboats looking for hidden compartments has happened, basically destroying the boat). If they did claim claim the vessel the flag country could reject the SNO, in which case we basically had to turn it over to the State Dept and we were basically done. Or they could put limits on what we could do. If they were U.S. flagged it was the same as any boarding in U.S. waters. This was predominantly 50' and below pleasure vessels, commercial vessels operate on a pretty rigorous inspection protocol and aren't often boarded at sea unless it's some odd situation. Pretty much any country's Navy/Coast Guard follows a similar protocol. The nationality of the crew themselves was pretty much completely irrelevant unless we needed to make an arrest.

So TLDR, you don't want to be able to be declared a stateless vessel, it can turn out very badly for you, and flag can matter a whole lot for a sailboat in international waters.

Stateless is fine so long as you have the bigger guns [emoji38]

On a more serious note, i don’t see what all the fuss is about. I have seen hundreds of Italian and Spanish flagged sailing vessels. They were all happy enough sailing around in the Med.

I see leas and less Dutch these days.

For UK SSR registration you must be resident in the UK i.e have an address there, where is easy enough to just use a friend’s

[BigNurse]

Originally Posted by TonyBoat

I think it is important to understand that when you choose to register your vessel under a different flag than your home country this is 1/ completely legal 2/ mostly not done for tax evasion but more for bureaucracy evasion from inept government institutions.

Spain is the perfect example of this; when you buy a vessel in Spain it will take months to get it licensed (bureaucracy) while they have invented maritime zones for boats. This means, for instance, you can buy a 12-meter fishing boat but often can not fish further from shore then 2, 5 or 12 miles out. Yes, you can change this for a little fee of around 4000 euro if you are lucky.

If this is fine for you and you have tons of time to waste while waiting to register your boat in Spain or Italy go for it, but all others I recommend to register your boat legally under a different European flag (like Poland) and pay 499 euro for a lifetime of the registration and receive your official European registration in about 5 days.

You can then say goodbye to all maritime zones and go fishing or sailing wherever you want!

Stay Safe!

Sorry, but this its TOTALLY false.
I have no idea about fishing boats, but on leisure boats as less register a ship in Spain takes half morning paperwork only, and can be done by the broker easily, or the yacht vendor, and you will have the boat documents ready next day, exactly the same to register a car.
Please, stop to tell such lies here.

[ccannan]

Does anyone have experience with registering a boat with the British Register in Jersey?