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Old 26-03-2014, 18:13   #121
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

@ Jim Cate you saying your current boat is a fin keel modern with Red Ceder Planking?
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Old 26-03-2014, 19:37   #122
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

Salty,

Jim's working right now, and I'll give you the answer: She is strip planked modern timber construction, epoxy soaked, epoxy and glass inside and out. Not a racy fin, more a Doug Peterson shape. Massive skeg and balanced rudder. Her overall hull shape is a bit like a giant dinghy, but the builder had Sayer draw the forward sections rounder, so's she wouldn't pound going upwind. There's very little of her in the water at the bow. 46 ft. on deck, 44 ft. waterline, 13.8 ft. beam, 7'2" draft.

Ann
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Old 26-03-2014, 19:51   #123
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

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Between 5 and 10 knts everyone jump on the yanmar unless your boat weight 2 tons, 10 to 15 make the diference but no idea why a full keel is asociated with heavy and slow, with a good sailplan and modern sails a decent full keel can move at 5 knts in light winds, a pig its a pig but not all the full keels out there are slow boats, above 20 is where the fun start for a full keel boat , many people prefer the easy seaway motion in this boats compared with a more lively and fast light boat....Just saying.

There is little difference in the motion between a heavy fin keel and a heavy full keel. The motion is primarily dictated by the weight not the keel configuration. So most conservative cruiser orientated long chord fin keels will have that supposed easier motion.

Full keels are a throwback to wooden construction methods rather then any inherent benefit.

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Old 26-03-2014, 20:02   #124
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Salty,

Jim's working right now, and I'll give you the answer
Thank you Ann!
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Old 26-03-2014, 20:02   #125
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

Full keels are a throwback...

I like mine just fine.

I wouldn't mind if she had a fin keel and a spade rudder, if you can capture that sheer line and those overhangs.
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Old 26-03-2014, 20:05   #126
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

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Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
@ Jim Cate you saying your current boat is a fin keel modern with Red Ceder Planking?
What Ann said...

see attached photo taken three days ago as she came up on the slipway. Shows the hull shape pretty well.

As to displacement: light ship 9 1/2 tonnes, as cruised probably between 11 and 12 tonnes depending on fluids and stores.

And note that interestingly, she balances perfectly on her keel!

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 26-03-2014, 20:12   #127
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

Good looking boat.
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Old 26-03-2014, 20:13   #128
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
What Ann said...

see attached photo taken three days ago as she came up on the slipway. Shows the hull shape pretty well.

As to displacement: light ship 9 1/2 tonnes, as cruised probably between 11 and 12 tonnes depending on fluids and stores.

And note that interestingly, she balances perfectly on her keel!

Cheers,

Jim

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Old 26-03-2014, 20:17   #129
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

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There is little difference in the motion between a heavy fin keel and a heavy full keel. The motion is primarily dictated by the weight not the keel configuration. So most conservative cruiser orientated long chord fin keels will have that supposed easier motion.

Full keels are a throwback to wooden construction methods rather then any inherent benefit.

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Really? The amount of area presented by a full keel, regardless of weight is significantly larger than that of any fin keel when beam seas are taken into account. In addition, nobody can attest to the distribution of that weight longitudinally fore or aft without design specifications and construction specifics.

In the real world, our cut away keel CR reacts very differently than a "traditional full keel" when wind is from the beam... the wind wants to (and does) push the bow because the resistance from the stern keeps the stern in place. We can use this to our advantage when the wind favors our course. In forward, I see very little difference in handling between our old Beneteau and our CR in a fairway or whatnot. Of course, this is not true when the wind opposes our intended course.
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Old 26-03-2014, 20:42   #130
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

@ Jim and Ann - What beautiful lines! Gorgeous. She must fly!
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Old 26-03-2014, 23:50   #131
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
There is little difference in the motion between a heavy fin keel and a heavy full keel. The motion is primarily dictated by the weight not the keel configuration. So most conservative cruiser orientated long chord fin keels will have that supposed easier motion.

Full keels are a throwback to wooden construction methods rather then any inherent benefit.

Dave


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Well, i disagree, most modern fin keels this days have flat rounded bottom sections at the bow area , pounding upwind is a lot easier in a full keel if you need to beat to weather, its a fact for me, downwind is another history but to weather a decent full keel or even better a modified full keel is a lottt way better for the crew , weight by weight, a 8 tons bene against a 6 to 8 ft short step sea its uncomfortable , same for the full keel but the motion is far better...
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Old 27-03-2014, 04:55   #132
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

Having sailed one or two long keeled boats, and a fair number of medium to long "fin" keeled boats , I can see no appreciable difference is the "motion in a seaway" argument.

Pounding of the lightly immersed forefoot can be a problem, especially when motoring to motor sailing, much less so when under good canvas as the bow is immersed.

Having sailed lots of the "modern cruisers" I have have not seen pounding as a big issue in general. I think its thrown out as an issue, but isn't really.

The fact is folks is full keels offered any appreciable advantages, they would still be built in numbers. The design of a full keel lies directly to wooden rib and frame construction and an investigation of the RN early frigates will show how they developed.

dave
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Old 27-03-2014, 05:35   #133
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

Some points..

Stability issues are two folded. Greater initial stability (wider water plane area) gives lesser heeling against wind forces but wave induced gets worse.

Long keels and deeper bodied hull forms with more wetted surface (and speed penalty) give more damping against rolling and yawing accelerations while flat underbodies and fin keels less.

Not much to do with weight, that's a different matter. Anyway my point is there are allways tradeoffs whatever you choose, no such thing as a perfect boat.

BR Teddy
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Old 27-03-2014, 06:33   #134
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

[QUOTE=goboatingnow;

Full keels are a throwback to wooden construction methods rather then any inherent benefit.

Dave


We'll except full keels don't tend to fall off, rudders usually stay attached as well.
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Old 27-03-2014, 06:37   #135
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

[QUOTE=cburger;1503012][QUOTE=goboatingnow;

Full keels are a throwback to wooden construction methods rather then any inherent benefit.

Dave


We'll except full keels don't tend to fall off, rudders usually stay attached as well. [/QUOTE]

They don't seem to fall of other boats too much, either. In the big scheme of things, your keel falling off should be a small concern if you got the boat surveyed and don't rest the boat on the ground too often.
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