Boating up the St Lawrence - currents/horsepower required?

[lmmcan]

You might check the air draft for the Ottawa River and Rideau Canal if you are considering that route.

Its a beautiful trip though.

[Gaia]

Originally Posted by NahanniV

I did the downriver trip twice.

You should have no problem since the only difficult parts are down river of Montreal where the tidal current needs to be taken into account going either direction.

You might even think about cruising downriver before heading up to Kingston, Quebec city and the Saguney River are some great memories from our cruise.

Kingston is a nice city for a sailor. Your beam is a bit wider than most monos but not excessive.

I have written too much already I suppose but it reflects my enthusiasm for the area. Considering it in context what we have seen and done since I feel it is a strong endorsement.

I wanted to mention the unforgettable sights just northeast of Montreal to the mouth of the river and the gulf where the Saquney enters as well hence the quote which I heartily endorse. You are guaranteed to see whales including Belugas although our visits where a long time ago. Also Quebec city might be the nicest and oldest in Canada with an unforgettable setting. Tides there are 15 ft if i remember correctly. So if you have time consider it. Montreal harbour is busy as is the river but it is wide and not a problem. The current and prevailing winds from the sw make coming back up more of a challenge but part of the way if not all tides can help and you have enough power.

Jim

[stibbles]

That's fantastic everyone. Really appreciate it. And reassuring too.

I am aiming to do the trip May/June next year when hopefully I will be able to fit in a 'jobbymoon' between my UK job and my Canadian job. 7 Star Yacht Transport did make me aware that I would have to wait until the melting of the water on the Great Lakes - not something I'm used to having to factor in residing in the UK! Climate-wise, it looks like cf the UK the summers are warmer and the winters are colder. I'm hoping that the latter will allow a bit of ski-ing too, so win-win as far as I see it.

I have already put a few feelers out regarding berthing and also lift capacity for my slightly beamy vessel. Collins Bay Marina and Kingston Town Marina have both said they can accommodate and also can lift out. The others (as far as Loyalist Cove in the west and Treasure Island in the east) have said 'no', barring the ones owned by the City (I think?) at Confederation Basin and Olympic Harbour, which did not respond. I thought this sounded promising enough and has given me the confidence to transport my Summer Twins rather than sell up and buy something different in Canada. The Commodore at the Toronto Multihull Cruising Club, Paul Howard, has also been really kind in sharing his views as to where we could and couldn't go with two hulls.

Can't wait!

Sounds like some great possibilities for passages to New York, Ottawa and Quebec, as well as around Lake Ontario.

I'll be looking through this forum for more ideas.

[MartinF]

Are you familiar with the weather and the sailing season in this area? (I am in Ottawa). Everyone hauls their boat in October and rigs a tent to deflect the snow. In November it starts to snow. Ice in protected areas builds to about a foot thick, and melts in April. Boats are relaunched in early May. Hence Gaia's comment about looking for storage. So you may want to ensure that your boat reaches Montreal between May and August.
Good Luck,
M

[NahanniV]

Originally Posted by Gaia

I have written too much already I suppose but it reflects my enthusiasm for the area. Considering it in context what we have seen and done since I feel it is a strong endorsement.

I wanted to mention the unforgettable sights just northeast of Montreal to the mouth of the river and the gulf where the Saquney enters as well hence the quote which I heartily endorse. You are guaranteed to see whales including Belugas although our visits where a long time ago. Also Quebec city might be the nicest and oldest in Canada with an unforgettable setting. Tides there are 15 ft if i remember correctly. So if you have time consider it. Montreal harbour is busy as is the river but it is wide and not a problem. The current and prevailing winds from the sw make coming back up more of a challenge but part of the way if not all tides can help and you have enough power.

Jim

https://youtu.be/7TUHudxJLJ0

[SuW]

The trip from Montreal to Kingston and back is done every summer by a flotilla of boats of all kinds - many people from the Montreal area spend their holidays in the 1000 Islands. Some folk around here call it, affectionately, the Quebec Navy :-)

Navigation season in the Seaway is March to December, but you probably wouldn’t really want to be boating before May and after October, unless you’re a die hard. Cold and poor weather.

If you're really getting the boat delivered to Salabery-de-Valleyfield, that is about halfway through the Seaway. You miss Montreal, the Canal du Sud and the Beauharnois locks, which is good for a first trip. I would not go via Ottawa/Rideau Canal unless you have your mast down, and want to take a long time. Also, I think it would cost more as you will have to go downstream through the Beauharnois locks and then go to the Ottawa river.

Incidentally, you will be travelling against the current and the wind (which is commonly from the SW). Currents just downstream of Montreal are swift and further upstream from Cardinal to Prescot/Brockville are sometimes 2-3 knots in places. Also strong adverse current when passing Cornwall (on the approach to the locks).

Log in to ActiveCaptain. The interactive cruising guide (Map) is invaluable for information about marinas, anchorages and hazards, free docks, shopping, fuel etc. Also the waiting docks for the Seaway locks are explained a bit better than the Seaway's own booklet. Sometimes you have to wait at a lock for a few hours if commercial vessels are transiting. They do not put pleasure craft in the lock at the same time as commercial freighters, you'll be pleased to know!

Navigation is easy (just follow the Seaway buoys). Places to anchor are not all that many for bad weather (see ActiveCaptain) until you get into the 1000 Islands past Brockville.

You may or may not be able to anchor or dock on the US side, until you get your paperwork sorted out. They can be very picky and the US border patrol are ever present. You can navigate through shared US waters (some of the locks are in US territory, for example). This is a whole other subject :-)

If there’s anything we can do to assist, we live in Morrisburg, which is halfway between the Snell-Eisenhower locks and the Iroquois lock (last lock on this section of the Seaway going upstream).

Best regards,

Sue & Don.

[SuW]

Oh, and I recommend Collins Bay Marina, although it is a somewhat noisy place, with trains, planes and car traffic. They also used to be a bit sticky about people working on their boats in the boatyard...that may have changed.

Also, if you didn't get a response from the Kingston City marinas, I'm not surprised. They lay off most of their staff in the off season. Boating is really just a summer activity around here. We're going to be hauling out next week and we are nearly the last in our marina to do so (Iroquois Marine Services).

[S/V Alchemy]

I can't see any problem at all. You'll need to have adequate fenders and long lines and boathooks for the locking up process, but otherwise, it's a doddle. Sailing around Kingston and the Thousand Islands is brilliant and a cat is the perfect boat for "gunkholing", a North American term for exploring areas of skinny water.



Collins Bay is a good option for a cat as it gets shallow, which doesn't bother you much, I would imagine.



We are going down the St. Lawrence next summer to Nova Scotia and parts east. We'll remember to wave!

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by stibbles

That's fantastic everyone. Really appreciate it. And reassuring too.

I am aiming to do the trip May/June next year when hopefully I will be able to fit in a 'jobbymoon' between my UK job and my Canadian job. 7 Star Yacht Transport did make me aware that I would have to wait until the melting of the water on the Great Lakes - not something I'm used to having to factor in residing in the UK! Climate-wise, it looks like cf the UK the summers are warmer and the winters are colder. I'm hoping that the latter will allow a bit of ski-ing too, so win-win as far as I see it.

I have already put a few feelers out regarding berthing and also lift capacity for my slightly beamy vessel. Collins Bay Marina and Kingston Town Marina have both said they can accommodate and also can lift out. The others (as far as Loyalist Cove in the west and Treasure Island in the east) have said 'no', barring the ones owned by the City (I think?) at Confederation Basin and Olympic Harbour, which did not respond. I thought this sounded promising enough and has given me the confidence to transport my Summer Twins rather than sell up and buy something different in Canada. The Commodore at the Toronto Multihull Cruising Club, Paul Howard, has also been really kind in sharing his views as to where we could and couldn't go with two hulls.

Can't wait!

Sounds like some great possibilities for passages to New York, Ottawa and Quebec, as well as around Lake Ontario.

I'll be looking through this forum for more ideas.

You sound on top of things. The ice is well gone by May, and these days, even April can be ice-free on Lake Ontario, although the water's bloody chilly. Be aware (as you probably are) that AC/shore power here is 120 VAC/60 Hz, so if you get a dock, you'll need to convert. Get a mooring and it doesn't matter, if you have solar panels. Paul Howard's a good fellow to know, and the Toronto Multihull is a good club. With a cat and a decent easterly (they are becoming more common for some reason), you could get to Toronto perhaps in one go, or break at Cobourg, which has "small town with money" charm and a decent marina. Just be very specific to mention you've a cat as they'll want to stick you on a finger end or the wall and while I've seen the occasional trimaran on Lake Ontario, sailing cats are not that common.

Lastly, you may be slightly surprised to hear this, but do not take Lake Ontario for granted weather-wise. We can and do have intense squalls in nearly any season, and can have four or even five metre waves associated with them. The fetch is short, but you'll notice the 200 miles of it at Kingston after a few days of WSW winds. Also, in the heat of summer, we can have sudden and violent thunderstorms, squalls and even waterspouts. Until I was actually in a hurricane in Antigua, the strongest winds I'd ever experienced were during a race on Lake Ontario where we saw 68 knots and the lake pounded flat by hail and weight of rain. A lot of sailmakers' kids went to better universities thanks to that race.

That said, you'll be rigged for light air most of the time, and remember you're at 44 degrees north and apply sunscreen and hats accordingly. Welcome to Canada. The Pleasure Craft Guide for the St. Lawrence is a good basic guide.

[SuW]

Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy

Lastly, you may be slightly surprised to hear this, but do not take Lake Ontario for granted weather-wise.

I must emphasize this remark. The worst weather we too have experienced in our lifetime of coastal cruising was in the eastern part of Lake Ontario!

Not only strong winds, sudden storms, lightning, flies (the Lake Ontario Biting Fly being memorable), and mosquitoes but also a seiche.

If the wind blows hard from the East or West for a few days, the level of the lake adjusts like a bathtub. Then when the wind ceases or turns around the level can change up to a metre in a few hours. You can come back to your boat and find your self aground when you were happily anchored previously.

There's nothing like it!

[SuW]

Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy

I can't see any problem at all. You'll need to have adequate fenders and long lines and boathooks for the locking up process, but otherwise, it's a doddle.

Not to contradict you, but I think I remember that the attendants at the Canadian locks pass you a mooring line fore and aft. You will need work gloves as these lines can be icky.

The US locks at Cornwall only (Snell-Eisenhower) have floating bollards that you loop your own short midship line onto and ride like an elevator (lift for our British brethren). You may need mooring lines to tie up to the waiting docks or a longish line to control your boat if things go squirrelly in the locks though.

You may need to raft up in the lock at busy times. The attendants don't much like this - presumably they've had less-than-optimal incidents! In May, there won't be many other poor, cold pleasure boaters on the water though.

You must have a second crew member (and for preference a third, especially with a cat).
Also everyone must be wearing lifejackets when you go into the locks otherwise there's shouting

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by SuW

Not to contradict you, but I think I remember that the attendants at the Canadian locks pass you a mooring line fore and aft. You will need work gloves as these lines can be icky.

The US locks at Cornwall only (Snell-Eisenhower) have floating bollards that you loop your own short midship line onto and ride like an elevator (lift for our British brethren). You may need mooring lines to tie up to the waiting docks or a longish line to control your boat if things go squirrelly in the locks though.

You may need to raft up in the lock at busy times. The attendants don't much like this - presumably they've had less-than-optimal incidents! In May, there won't be many other poor, cold pleasure boaters on the water though.

You must have a second crew member (and for preference a third, especially with a cat).
Also everyone must be wearing lifejackets when you go into the locks otherwise there's shouting

True enough. Thanks for the additional detail. Forgot about the elevating bollards! And the rafting up thing is particularly true at busy times.

[Ardbeg]

OK I went from Kingston to Gaspe and back during the summer of 2017. Currents were at 100 year records that year due to such high water. I have a 38 foot Catalina with a 40 HP Yanmar. I made it. So you will go into the water in Valleyfield which will be above the Beauharois locks. Once you pass the lift bridge where you go into water, you will do Lake St Francois. Big lake ( part of river) but you will need good charts to watch the depth. It can get shallow. Biggest current we found was at Cornwall locks. ( 2 of the American locks on Seaway. After that the Iroquois Lock is easy to traverse. Most of the way you should stick close to the commercial channel because as someone else mentioned, you can go from 200 feet to 2 feet in the length of the boat. The current can be strong in Brockville narrows however your boat should handle it. Same with Alexandria NY. The shipping channel is narrow with heavy traffic and we saw 4 knots against us. After you pass A Bay ( as the locals call it) head up to Clayton NY. ( Very nice stop). After Clayton NY you should take the Quebec Cut to go north of Wolfe Island. Be careful in the cut, do not leave the channel and do not cut the corner AT ALL! Once past Quebec cut you have easy and beautiful sailing into Kingston.
By the way whoever suggested the Rideau Canal and Ottawa does not know the area. You would have to take down your mast and have less than 5 foot draft to do that route.
Kingston offers great sailing due to thermal winds nearly every afternoon. Lots to see there for a season. Most of the marinas mentioned by someone else, would not be easy for you in a CAT and away from downtown. If you book ahead you could get a spot at Confederation Basin which is right in downtown Kingston close to stores and restaurants. Last two weeks of July the Quebec Navy ( up to 200 powerboats) invades so you will need a reservation well in advance. Portsmouth Olympic Harbour could easily take your boat and reservation not really needed. Only issue is a long hike downtown. ( 6 km).Good pub right there though called The Ports. My boat is kept at POH. The other advantage of POH is you are right at entrance to the Lake Ontario. So sailing as soon as you leave port. Lots to do sailing there for a summer. Not to be missed, Main Duck Islands, circumnavigate Amherst and Wolfe Island and great swimming. The water is very clean.
If you are a Brit, I am not sure what you will need in registration for the boat and visas for the crew. For the USA. Going thru the American seaway locks you do not need visas as long as you only tie up at the locks. You need two able hands to go thru any of the locks. A Bay and Clayton would be in USA so you would need paperwork. Another place to visit is Sackets Harbor in New York. Again I assume you will need papers as you will enter USA. Any other questions let me know and I will respond. Go for it!!!!!

[Mirage35]

Originally Posted by SuW

Oh, and I recommend Collins Bay Marina, although it is a somewhat noisy place, with trains, planes and car traffic. They also used to be a bit sticky about people working on their boats in the boatyard...that may have changed.

I’m in Collins Bay and this is a pretty good summary, but I’ll add that the owners are great people and go out of their way to make things work for everyone.

Re the Rideau Canal; there’s no “if” you take the mast down - you won’t get past Ottawa with it stepped.

[hamburking]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I believe there is a canal around the worst of it but there are other alternatives.

Salaberry-de-Valleyfield is actually up river past Montreal. From there you could take the Rideau canal.

Alternatively, you could ship to New York and then go up the Hudson and across the Erie

The Rideau canal connects Kingston to Ottawa (not Montreal). Bad idea.

New York to Kingston via the Hudson river would add 2 weeks to a 3 day trip. Another bad idea.