Where's the best place to register my sailboat?

[macanudo]

Our yacht was Seychelles registered & had zero problems clearing in/out of 26 countries until we got to USA where Custom/Immigration asked Port of Registration
"Victoria;Seychelles"..
"where is that?"
"Indian Ocean"
"yes but who does it belong to?"
"its a Republic"
"yes but who does it belong to?"
"Seychelles doesnt exist"
It wasnt in his tome of words & neither was reciprocity in his vocabulary.


Having just gone through the vagaries of VAT issues when trying to purchase another vessel for EU/UK use here is what I have gleaned:-


If you enter any EU or UK port Customs can demand to see proof of VAT payment.
You must carry that paperwork onboard & show it if demanded otherwise they can impound the vessel until sorted. Friend's Aus yacht was impounded by French authorities until full VAT was paid
Post Brexit is even more complicated between EU & UK. Like others have stated you can stay in EU or UK waters for up to 18 months (do 24hr out of EU to other non EU duristiction & return with proof of voyage to have a further 18 months)
BUT as the vessel you are buying was originally a French non VAT vessel they may well ask the right questions & you could fall foul.
Many vessels including the one that we have been looking to purchase recently are old & fall under an agreeement between EU/UK 1992/3 that declared pre 1984 vessels would be deemed VAT paid BUT that doesnt override any customs official in EU or UK requesting so see proof of VAT having been paid even if the vessel is pre 1984.

Its a bit of a minefield especially if you encounter any officious customs officials. EU registration flag in itself will not preclude any EU Customs official asking for proof of VAT payment.


Good luck whatever you decide.

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by MikeFergie

Another vote for Lankawi. I am here now and changed my boat from the BVI,s to Langkawi due to high annual costs. Langkawi annual cost is about $100.

Ouch! High seas robbery. US documentation is $26/year -- $133 for the first year. No taxes, no survey, nothing else. But limited to US citizens. Can be done online, both original and renewal (but the certificate is mailed to you).

[markcouz]

Originally Posted by pelenter

I heard some cases that were not able to get the AIS number in Poland. Just check how long will take...

I have been waiting 18 months since registration for Polish MMSI - registration was no problem but MMSI seems to be an issue.

My agent has offered me a British MMSI which is quick and easy, but I prefer to wait for Polish to match registration while RSA MMSI is still valid (2025).

So work around does exist.

[BM2023]

Originally Posted by markcouz

I have been waiting 18 months since registration for Polish MMSI - registration was no problem but MMSI seems to be an issue.

My agent has offered me a British MMSI which is quick and easy, but I prefer to wait for Polish to match registration while RSA MMSI is still valid (2025).

So work around does exist.

That is extremely unusual, as normally it takes 4 to 6 weeks, for them to issue the ship station licence. Longer than 2 months is more an exception than a rule.

Before considering UK issued ship station licence, please keep in mind that the Polish maritime law requires that all seagoing vessels are issued a Polish ship station licence.

Here again, if something happens and the insurance company asks for the Polish issued ship station licence and you can not produce it, they may have a reason not to award a claim.

[MarkusW]

Originally Posted by HarmenR

Another alternative might be Langkawi. Everything can be done online, one payment, lasts a lifetime. Langkawi is white listed. https://www.langkawi-yacht-registration.com/# And you don't have to worry about paying VAT in the EU. You can sail in the EU for up to 18 months, quickly nip over to a non EU state near the end of the period and then return for another 18 months, etc.

Would this also apply for EU citizens?

[Joh.Ghurt]

Originally Posted by MarkusW

Would this also apply for EU citizens?

No, it specifically doesn’t. As an EU-resident, the yacht you own in EU waters need the VAT paid immediately.

[SoFoSON]

Originally Posted by macanudo

Its a bit of a minefield especially if you encounter any officious customs officials. EU registration flag in itself will not preclude any EU Customs official asking for proof of VAT payment.


Good luck whatever you decide.

Does this apply for boats from non EU countries like malaysia owned by non EU counties/citizens?

[macanudo]

As has been said in this thread if your boat is registered & flagged in a non-EU juristiction & you are NOT an EU citizen then you can travel freely throughout EU for up to 18 months. Likewise travel through UK.
Problems arise for EU & UK citizens who fall under VAT rules. All that said, any disenfranchised EU or UK customs official can make things awkward if they got out of the wrongs side of the bed that morning but my understanding is that you would be completely legal. Dont let that detract from cruising the grounds.

[Stingo]

Originally Posted by macanudo

....you are NOT an EU citizen then you can travel freely throughout EU for up to 18 months

Or Resident

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by macanudo

As has been said in this thread if your boat is registered & flagged in a non-EU juristiction & you are NOT an EU citizen then you can travel freely throughout EU for up to 18 months.

Well, except for the "how dare you spend your cruising money in our countries for more than 90 days" Schengen rules. Really don't know what they were thinking about (I have to believe we are simply collateral damage from some much bigger target).

[macanudo]

To clarify

Stingo is correct if you are resident EU regardless of passport nationality you are liable to pay VAT on your vessel.


Sailingharry refers to personal stay limits & not the vessel.
My understanding is that from a persoanl passport/visa perspective at the moment US passport holders may stay up to 90days in a 180day period whereas a vessel which is non EU registered & non EU owned may stay up to 180days before the vessel must leave EU waters. However this 180day clock may be reset by the vessel exiting EU & re-entering a minimum of 24hrs later with evidence of that journey. That B word crazy Brexit has also caused some further complications so remember that UK is no longer EU however my understanding is that the EU countries & UK rules in this regard are pretty much the same. Ah BUT that said on a more positive note at the moment if your vessel is eg in France & its 180day limit is approaching if it is moved across the channel to UK for 24hrs then it may return to EU with another 180days. Keep your records straight me hearties!

We fell foul of similar issues whilst cruising USA Eastern seaboard as our vessel's cruising time was approaching its limit & the weather offshore NC was horrendous Customs & Immigaration could not extend our stay by 2-3 days & forced us to file a sail plan & head out into what was a storm or apply for a "45day extension which would take 45days"
All part of cruising life's rich pageant.

[SoFoSON]

So in summary, the two best countries to register are Poland and Langkawi in Malaysia based on the collective experience? Langkawi is best for non EU citizens/residents and Poland is the alternative.

Jamaica was mentioned as an option but seems to require inspection if I’m not mistaken? All other countries like the Cook Islands, Marshall Islands, caymans, BVI, etc are either too expensive without apparent benefit, require inspection or have poor whitelist status which will impact insurance.

Did I get that right?

Does anyone have experience with getting insurance with Langkawi registration?

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by macanudo

To clarify

Stingo is correct if you are resident EU regardless of passport nationality you are liable to pay VAT on your vessel.


Sailingharry refers to personal stay limits & not the vessel.
My understanding is that from a persoanl passport/visa perspective at the moment US passport holders may stay up to 90days in a 180day period whereas a vessel which is non EU registered & non EU owned may stay up to 180days before the vessel must leave EU waters. However this 180day clock may be reset by the vessel exiting EU & re-entering a minimum of 24hrs later with evidence of that journey. That B word crazy Brexit has also caused some further complications so remember that UK is no longer EU however my understanding is that the EU countries & UK rules in this regard are pretty much the same. Ah BUT that said on a more positive note at the moment if your vessel is eg in France & its 180day limit is approaching if it is moved across the channel to UK for 24hrs then it may return to EU with another 180days. Keep your records straight me hearties!

We fell foul of similar issues whilst cruising USA Eastern seaboard as our vessel's cruising time was approaching its limit & the weather offshore NC was horrendous Customs & Immigaration could not extend our stay by 2-3 days & forced us to file a sail plan & head out into what was a storm or apply for a "45day extension which would take 45days"
All part of cruising life's rich pageant.

A NON EU citizen can stay within the Schengen border for 90 days in 180 days (it is a rolling schedule). In addition to EU countries Schengen also applies to non EU countries Norway Sweden EEA and Switzerland. Schengen does not apply to Eire (which is in the EU) or UK (which is not in the EU) where stays can be up to 180 days.

A NON VAT Paid (NON EU Vessel) can remain as a temporary import for up to 18 months. This maybe be reset by moving the vessel to another NON EU country before returning. A non UK vessel can remain in UK for 18 months under temporary import.