Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 01-01-2015, 16:36   #346
Registered User
 
soverel's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: South Florida
Boat: Soverel 30
Posts: 141
Re: What is the current FL anchoring policy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fjwiley1 View Post
Pilot....just my opinion but I believe those that want the mooring fields hope that those that like to "anchor out" as live aboard won't be able to afford a mooring field. May be true for some, the " old " Boot Key situation, but for most it's about not being regulated/restrictions.

In the recent years, many marinas jacked up their prices so high people moved out to anchoring out or lose their boat due to escalating cost.

Life is good if you Keepa Smilin....


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
As i recall from my research years ago on Florida law the introduction of the msd requirement on boats coincided with the increase in marina fees. I believe to be a liveaboard marina, the marina had to set up for pump outs. A great many liveaboard marinas closed down and those still around are expensive.

Ive seen one local liveaboard marina close down and try to put in dockominiums...huge failure.



Sent from my HUAWEI-M931 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________

__________________
soverel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2015, 17:04   #347
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Paradise
Boat: Various
Posts: 2,360
Re: What is the current FL anchoring policy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by soverel View Post
As i recall from my research years ago on Florida law the introduction of the msd requirement on boats coincided with the increase in marina fees. I believe to be a liveaboard marina, the marina had to set up for pump outs. A great many liveaboard marinas closed down and those still around are expensive.

Ive seen one local liveaboard marina close down and try to put in dockominiums...huge failure.



Sent from my HUAWEI-M931 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
That was long before I moved to Florida. While it's a shame if that led to less liveaboard slips. However, it certainly makes sense for a liveaboard marina to have pump out arrangements. You have many liveaboard boats that never move.

Yes, dockominiums have failed many times in many places and remained rentals. A few have been successful.
__________________

__________________
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2015, 17:19   #348
Registered User
 
soverel's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: South Florida
Boat: Soverel 30
Posts: 141
Re: What is the current FL anchoring policy?

Ive been reading this for years..planning actually and yes it was many years ago.

Sent from my HUAWEI-M931 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
soverel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2015, 18:35   #349
smj
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Searunner 38 catamaran
Posts: 3,654
Re: What is the current FL anchoring policy?

[QUOTE=letsgetsailing3;1712646]The problem is that derelict boats isn't the same as "boats that don't look tidy".[/

Maybe that's the problem, defining derelict boats. If a boat has no means of propulsion but is being actively lived aboard would it be a derelict? What if it had no propulsion or registration?
__________________
smj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2015, 18:40   #350
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Paradise
Boat: Various
Posts: 2,360
Re: What is the current FL anchoring policy?

[QUOTE=smj;1712732]
Quote:
Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3 View Post
The problem is that derelict boats isn't the same as "boats that don't look tidy".[/

Maybe that's the problem, defining derelict boats. If a boat has no means of propulsion but is being actively lived aboard would it be a derelict? What if it had no propulsion or registration?
Those are part of the question and perhaps other classifications or labels are needed. Just to complicate it, occupied having no registration vs. unoccupied? Do you ticked if it's being actively used and tow if it isn't?
__________________
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2015, 18:41   #351
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,440
Re: What is the current FL anchoring policy?

[QUOTE=smj;1712732]
Quote:
Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3 View Post
The problem is that derelict boats isn't the same as "boats that don't look tidy".[/

Maybe that's the problem, defining derelict boats. If a boat has no means of propulsion but is being actively lived aboard would it be a derelict? What if it had no propulsion or registration?

In Florida, it has to be registered. It has to be registered in the state of Florida if it's there more than 90 days. But I don't know how this gets enforced.
__________________
letsgetsailing3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2015, 18:42   #352
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,440
Re: What is the current FL anchoring policy?

[QUOTE=BandB;1712736]
Quote:
Originally Posted by smj View Post

Those are part of the question and perhaps other classifications or labels are needed. Just to complicate it, occupied having no registration vs. unoccupied? Do you ticked if it's being actively used and tow if it isn't?
Those are great questions, but it seems to me that the FWC should be enforcing that, as opposed to municipalities getting more authority.
__________________
letsgetsailing3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2015, 18:52   #353
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,056
What is the current FL anchoring policy?

Derelict boats would be easy, of course you need to pass the law to allow it, but get FWC to check boats for registration ( with that determining ownership is easy) if not registered, and or ownership can't be determined, put a large orange sticker on it, just like they do cars on the side of the road. If the vessel is not moved in a timely manner, or contact with FWC fixing the matter, tow the boat and impound it.
Just like you do abandoned automobiles. Now automobiles its a short time, but boats maybe make it 30 days?

OK, maybe this isn't perfect, but it wouldn't be a hard fix, hard thing is where do you put all the abandoned boats?
I think if done in quantity, scrap value could make disposal a break even proposition. If nothing else where does the fiberglass come form for reinforcing concrete?
Hardest thing in the world to dispose of is tires, you can't bury or burn them and they do not decompose, but many uses have come form them once people tired hard enough, from welcome mats to paving compound. I think given the opportunity same for boats
Last time I looked it cost $2 a pound to buy lead, scrap value of those old keels has to be worth a significant amount?

So how does mooring fields help with any of this?



Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2015, 18:56   #354
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,440
Re: What is the current FL anchoring policy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Derelict boats would be easy, of course you need to pass the law to allow it, but get FWC to check boats for registration ( with that determining ownership is easy) if not registered, and or ownership can't be determined, put a large orange sticker on it, just like they do cars on the side of the road. If the vessel is not moved in a timely manner, or contact with FWC fixing the matter, tow the boat and impound it.
Just like you do abandoned automobiles. Now automobiles its a short time, but boats maybe make it 30 days?

OK, maybe this isn't perfect, but it wouldn't be a hard fix, hard thing is where do you put all the abandoned boats?
I think if done in quantity, scrap value could make disposal a break even proposition. If nothing else where does the fiberglass come form for reinforcing concrete?
Hardest thing in the world to dispose of is tires, you can't bury or burn them and they do not decompose, but many uses have come form them once people tired hard enough, from welcome mats to paving compound.
Last time I looked it cost $2 a pound to buy lead, scrap value of those old keels has to be worth a significant amount?

So how does mooring fields help with any of this?



Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

I agree.

The FWC would probably want to find the owner, if possible, and fine them for any derelict boat that that you need to take care of.
__________________
letsgetsailing3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2015, 19:18   #355
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SW Florida
Boat: FP Belize, 43' - Dot Dun
Posts: 3,432
Re: What is the current FL anchoring policy?

Both liveaboard and derelict are defined in the FL state statutes. Yes, liveaboards can already be governed by local ordinances, they are NOT exempt like vessels in navigation.

Liveaboard:

327.02 (19) “Live-aboard vessel” means:
(a) A vessel used solely as a residence and not for navigation;
(b) A vessel represented as a place of business or a professional or other commercial enterprise; or
(c) A vessel for which a declaration of domicile has been filed pursuant to s. 222.17.

Derelict:

823.11 (1)
(b) “Derelict vessel” means a vessel, as defined in s. 327.02, that is left, stored, or abandoned:
1. In a wrecked, junked, or substantially dismantled condition upon any public waters of this state.
2. At a port in this state without the consent of the agency having jurisdiction thereof.
3. Docked, grounded, or beached upon the property of another without the consent of the owner of the property.
__________________
DotDun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2015, 04:49   #356
Registered User
 
Neeltje's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Saint Augustine, Florida
Boat: 1902 Dutch Tjalk, 64'
Posts: 297
Re: What is the current FL anchoring policy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3 View Post
I agree.

The FWC would probably want to find the owner, if possible, and fine them for any derelict boat that that you need to take care of.
Since those who abandon their boat usually do so because they can't afford to keep it, I seriously doubt that the FWC would get very much out of fining them. Assuming, of course, that they were able to locate the owner in the first place.
__________________
Neeltje is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2015, 06:00   #357
Registered User
 
SimonV's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Posts: 1,316
Re: What is the current FL anchoring policy?

After reading some of the comments about up and leaving your boat at anchor for days at a time while you explore on land, I wonder if I am the only one cringing at the thought. If I and those I know decide to spend more than a day off the boat then I pay for a mooring ball or a slip. My boat is my home and leaving it at anchor, unattended for days is just asking for trouble.

Sent from my GT-N7105T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
Simon

https://svgoodonya.blogspot.com.au/
SimonV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2015, 07:01   #358
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,440
Re: What is the current FL anchoring policy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neeltje View Post
Since those who abandon their boat usually do so because they can't afford to keep it, I seriously doubt that the FWC would get very much out of fining them. Assuming, of course, that they were able to locate the owner in the first place.
They should have the authority to do that, however.
__________________
letsgetsailing3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2015, 07:12   #359
Registered User
 
CaptTom's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Southern Maine
Boat: Prairie 36 Coastal Cruiser
Posts: 977
Re: What is the current FL anchoring policy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I think if done in quantity, scrap value could make disposal a break even proposition. If nothing else where does the fiberglass come form for reinforcing concrete?
I like this line of thinking. The root of the whole problem, boats that are worth less than what it would cost to scrap them, and hence nobody wants, would go away if there were some residual value in fiberglass (technically, fiberglass reinforced plastic.)

I'm not a chemist, or in an industry that uses these materials. But we have members who are.

Ideas anyone?
__________________
CaptTom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2015, 08:24   #360
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,056
Re: What is the current FL anchoring policy?

I may be wrong, but I'd bet the current laws involving seizure and disposal of a vessel may be too complex.
I'd propose something like,
1. vessel has no HIN, no registration, ownership cannot be determined, slap the sticker on it, tow to impound 30 days later, dispose of vessel 30 days later.
2. If vessel ownership can be determined, slap the sticker on it, notify the owner by registered letter etc., that if they don't move the boat in 30 days, it will be scrapped.

This for vessels that appear to be not used or seaworthy, now you can sticker any vessel, but it has 30 days to move.
Define move to be what .25 mile? Record GPS co-ordinates on sticker.

Now I have to assume no cruiser has a boat that has no registration, and doesn't move in a 30 day period?
OK, so something bad happens and I have to leave, I get contacted because my boat is registered and this stops the scrapping proscess, or possibly register the boat as stored with FWC, which gives me 180 days?

Make whatever the law is become very well publicized, say one yr before implementaiton, have a signature block on registration that explains you have read and understand the scrapping / impound laws.

This is just my thoghts, but some laws could be written, that would deal with abandoned boats, just like there are laws that deal with abandoned automobiles, just I don't think a mooring field is intended to deal with abandoned boats, it's a smoke screen


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________

__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
anchor, anchoring, current

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What is the CF Policy for Seeking Employment ? skeedaddy Boat Ownership & Making a Living 6 28-06-2010 19:41
gray water policy Loith General Sailing Forum 2 16-12-2005 20:41
Ocean Policy Report GordMay Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 0 08-05-2004 03:01



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:06.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.