Tonnage Certificate for new Lagoon 450

[BandB]

Well, we're 14 days later. Surely he's resolved this by now.

[boatpoker]

I am a Transport Canada Tonnage Measurer and have done several 450's. I have had Transport Canada tonnage surveys accepted in Costa Rica, Guatemala and BVI's.

Transport Canada does not require me to visit the vessel if builders drawings are available or if I have sistership measurements (I have both). I have everything I need to issue a certificate for a Lagoon 450.

A long shot but ..... Find out if a Transport Canada measurement and certificate would be accepted for a part one registry and if so, I can do it for you and email it to you.

From you all I would need is .... Owners full legal name and mailing address, Chosen name of vessel, engine output, four photographs ..... bow, stern, profile and HIN

[monte]

Good on ya bp

[savoir]

I know nothing about getting surveys in France or Canada but can say that they are dead easy to get in UK. Go to any of the big ports on the South coast and you will probably have 10 or so surveyors to pick from.

As for registration it seems like you want to register in one of the British tax havens namely Isle of Man, Guernsey, Jersey, Gibraltar, Malta, BVI, Caymans. Be sure to download a full set of their forms because one will have to be completed by the builder. If it's any help, the most common tax haven flag among the gin palaces in Newport is Cayman Islands. I hear that Lagoons have a pretty sizeable gin locker so maybe that's the way to go.

All the registrars have websites for you to check the rules and all will accept a British tonnage survey.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by savoir

I know nothing about getting surveys in France or Canada but can say that they are dead easy to get in UK. Go to any of the big ports on the South coast and you will probably have 10 or so surveyors to pick from.

As for registration it seems like you want to register in one of the British tax havens namely Isle of Man, Guernsey, Jersey, Gibraltar, Malta, BVI, Caymans. Be sure to download a full set of their forms because one will have to be completed by the builder. If it's any help, the most common tax haven flag among the gin palaces in Newport is Cayman Islands. I hear that Lagoons have a pretty sizeable gin locker so maybe that's the way to go.

All the registrars have websites for you to check the rules and all will accept a British tonnage survey.

No difficulty in getting a UK tonnage survey done, in the western med. Plenty of ybdsa surveyors around

Dave


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[markv]

No..still haven't resolved it fully yet, but getting there. This information may be useful to others going through the same process.

- Lagoon definitely don't issue a tonnage certificate. You have to have a surveyor do it, recognised by the YBDSA, MCA

- Tonnage certificate has to come from a YBDSA or MCA recognised agency, so a tonnage survey done by others no good.

- I would prefer to have a British Flag, and FOC done by any Red Ensign country (like BVI, Caymans, Gibraltar), all require a tonnage survey. All more expensive than the UK. I don't have tax issues, and the yacht will be based in Asia so no VAT issues either, so no reason NOT to use the UK.

- I am not a resident, so I cannot do part 3, but I am a British citizen so I can do part 1. You need a spokesperson resident in UK, so that would be my sister who lives there.

On the YBDSA site, there was one surveyor who lives 4 hours drive away, he quoted 800 Euros, plus VAT, plus driving time there and back. Small problem tho. He comes to do the survey, he goes back and we send the form to the MCA. They send the carving note back to him to sign and he sends it back. All takes time, up to 3 weeks.

I think what we may do, since we want to get going down to Gibraltar asap, is get the provisional certificate without tonnage survey, then sail it down Gibraltar (I think they accept provisional but we have to check), and get the tonnage certificate done there and sent to UK. We will be there to get work done on the boat so about 2 weeks there. Should be enough time to get it done. Trying to find out where online I can find the form for provisional application, cannot find so far. Asked the Part 1 registry guys where it is and waiting on response.

[monte]

Good to hear Mark. Ask the marinas in Gibraltar about the provisional as they do the customs and immigration. Try queens way marina. We had an Australian provisional but I think we had full registration before arriving there.

[svlamorocha]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

I am a Transport Canada Tonnage Measurer and have done several 450's. I have had Transport Canada tonnage surveys accepted in Costa Rica, Guatemala and BVI's.

Transport Canada does not require me to visit the vessel if builders drawings are available or if I have sistership measurements (I have both). I have everything I need to issue a certificate for a Lagoon 450.

A long shot but ..... Find out if a Transport Canada measurement and certificate would be accepted for a part one registry and if so, I can do it for you and email it to you.

From you all I would need is .... Owners full legal name and mailing address, Chosen name of vessel, engine output, four photographs ..... bow, stern, profile and HIN

I think sailingforfun will want to read this thread

[leftbrainstuff]

Originally Posted by monte

Well look at it this way. The guy is British but not living there. Maybe working in Asia or whatever. So because he is working overseas he can't register it in his home country because of buerocratic bs? Not very cool in my opinion.

Very unpatriotic of the UK.

It took us 10 months to finalise our Australian ships registration. We purchased and live in the US. Lucky we weren't planning on leaving the US in the meantime.

The whole registration process is stuck in the 1760s. We had to provide additional 'tonnage' related measurements that weren't on the official application forms. I had to provide our theoretical hull speed 5 times by email. They dont seem to read their email of course.

The stupidity of the process is that they never ask for any pictures of the vessel. I could have been registering a hat for all they know. What use is the theoretical hull speed to the authorities?

In the event the Australian authorities needed to provide information to others for identifying our boat they couldn't. Search and rescue, theft, legitimising an illegal vessel using our identification, etc.

We pay a lot of money to be on the Australian ships register. We cant even update our details online because of their crapware. Changing a radio mmsi registration for example. There are so many safety of life issues.

Australia only moved away from the UK register in the 1980s.

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[BandB]

So much of what we face day to day is from before the age of communication and before it became "A Small World."

Just in the US you see it with every state having different rules and laws on everything. Well, once people didn't cross from one state to another and had no idea what was happening across the country until weeks later. Now, it would be so much easier if there was uniformity but states aren't going to ever agree to it.

So you go to the world and the same thing. There was a time no Australian was going to be residing in and buying a boat in the US and people in the US didn't bank and do business in the Cayman Islands. But countries aren't going to ever relinquish their own registries. It carries over in so many areas too. Different rules in all aspects. Even Captain's licenses where there are multiple systems. Some of it seems so silly. Look at the Jones Act. Yes, it had purposes to protect workers. But the silliness if I want to ship a boat from Washington to South Florida. I have to take that boat to British Columbia. So people do that all the time. Washington builders ship large numbers of boats to the East Coast. And the port that benefits isn't in the US.

I'm not attempting to turn this into a debate or even an attack on the laws or rules. It's simply an observation of rules and laws and procedures created long ago in a different time but very difficult to change and people are very resistant to change.

[monte]

Lefty I've always had good experiences with AMSA registering vessels as well as beacons, and they answer phones and are helpful on the phone as well as emails. Some things just don't quite fit in their standard procedures I guess so take a bit more time. Applying for an MMSI is usually pretty fast once the vessel is registered but they do need registration and radio serial numbers etc to comply with radio standards.

[sailingforfun]

BoatPoker, I'm taking delivery of a Lagoon 450 in mid-July at Les Sables d'Olonne. The boat will be registered in the BVI's.

Are you knowledgeable and qualified to do a tonnage survey and then send it onto the BVI's registry as they require. Trident Trust will be my local registered agent.

Like MarkV, I'm feeling my way through this, so I'm not sure of all the intricacies.

[monte]

Sff, I think lagoon will supply the certificate on request.

[sailingforfun]

I'll be visiting the factory next week and will ask them and report back on what they say. It would make sense if they did do it. Thanks.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by sailingforfun

BoatPoker, I'm taking delivery of a Lagoon 450 in mid-July at Les Sables d'Olonne. The boat will be registered in the BVI's.

Are you knowledgeable and qualified to do a tonnage survey and then send it onto the BVI's registry as they require. Trident Trust will be my local registered agent.

Like MarkV, I'm feeling my way through this, so I'm not sure of all the intricacies.

You would have to ask BVI Registry if they would accept a Transport Canada measurement.