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Old 16-03-2010, 19:39   #31
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Neither can you be forced to accept a tow to safety, no matter how desperate the situation is.
That is true, however, your insurance company may actually be able to deny any claim to repair your vessel if your refusal was beyond what "a prudent mariner" would have done. It will take me a day to find the case law on that, but I do remember there was one where a skipper refused an offer of salvage, and his boat suffered major damage. His insurance co. won their argument that if he HAD accepted the offer, the damage would have been less, and therefore he had violated the terms of his policy, which included ( as most insurance policies do) the requirement that if the vessel is in danger, the owner is obligated to make all efforts to "mitigate the loss".
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Old 16-03-2010, 20:37   #32
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I feel like salvage law is akin to Locke's State Of Nature. No known and impartial judge, no known accepted law, no enforcement body...

Our governments have failed us on the high seas.
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Old 16-03-2010, 20:44   #33
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"Navigable waters" is any mudhole the US Corp of Engineers say it is......
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Old 17-03-2010, 20:17   #34
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You might find the following link useful

http://www.mcgill.ca/maritimelaw/glossaries/marlaw/

In matters of salvage you also need to consider the issues of arrest and liens.
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Old 17-03-2010, 21:48   #35
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"Navigable waters" is any mudhole the US Corp of Engineers say it is......
In Canada, it is any body of water that can float a whisky bottle year round.
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Old 17-03-2010, 21:54   #36
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Back to the topic, never accept a tow until the terms are agreed.
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Old 18-03-2010, 05:23   #37
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Back to the topic, never accept a tow until the terms are agreed.
Otherwise you might end up with a lien against your boat and have it arrested!
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Old 18-03-2010, 05:43   #38
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I didn't want to hijack the "Disaster!" thread, so I'm posting this here:

A few people have stated that a vessel unmanned and adrift can be claimed as salvage. Does that include inland waters? What are the limits to this?

A link to some kind of official documentation, be it US or International would be nice, instead of the usual sea-lawyering. (cough, Gord, cough)

Thanks!
Unfair! Gord is one of the best on the forum about backing up his statements with authoritative links!
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Old 18-03-2010, 07:02   #39
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Back to the topic, never accept a tow until the terms are agreed.
I believe the topic also included the question of an "unmanned" vessel. How does one reach an agreement on terms with an unmanned vessel that is careening through a crowded anchorage or towards some rocks?

So, we weren't quite off topic....
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Old 18-03-2010, 09:46   #40
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It's been a few days since I read it but IIRC Anderson says that someone offering you a tow is not seen as salvage so if someone is hoping for payment from a tow they better state it outright, in the USA at least, or they won't have a claim later. I suspect any pro would get a contract. He does say one thing that is odd with regard to agreeing to help from a salvor and that is that if any reasonable person would accept help under the circumstances you are deemed as having accepted help. I suyppose this is a saving the stubborn clause or something - the sharks are circling and you're on the rocks?
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Old 18-03-2010, 10:14   #41
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I believe the topic also included the question of an "unmanned" vessel. How does one reach an agreement on terms with an unmanned vessel that is careening through a crowded anchorage or towards some rocks?

So, we weren't quite off topic....
Whilst on my first visit to the Balearic's in 96 on my Westerly Longbow 'Deep Water'... I anchored in Andratx, Majorca.
A charter boat with 7 guys aboard came charging in, one at the bow released the anchor and piled the cable straight down on top...no laying of the chain... meanwhile another was launching the dinghy and they all promptly piled in and speed ashore to cruise the bars.
A coupla hours later the breeze sprang up and... surprise, surprise... she started dragging through the anchorage.
I leapt into my dinghy, went over and hauled in the chain then re-layed it using the drift to bed it in... it held.. so I headed back to my boat feeling good about myself.
As I passed another boat on the way back, the owner(long term ex-pat) waved me across.. he then proceeded to advise me to never do that again as..

A/ I could be arrested for trespass and attempting to steal the boat..

B/ Should the boat have been in collision with another vessel I would be liable for any claims.

C/ If my attempts had failed and the boat had run aground I would be held liable for 'tampering' with the vessel and causing the disaster..

Needless to say... since then I've restricted my activities to merely 'fending off' unmanned drifting vessels.... unless they threaten to foul my anchor in the process... in which case I'll fasten a line to them and lay more cable to compensate till the owner returns.

Out at sea in open water away from land is another matter...
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Old 18-03-2010, 10:41   #42
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By this logic though if a grandmother falls in the middle of the road and you help her to the curb but along the way a car hits you both and she is injured then you are liable. What jury of 12 people would find against someone that was truly helping?

I haven't lost that much faith in my fellow humans that I believe that could really happen nor have I heard a real tale of it happening that didn't have some extenuating circumstances.

I suspect that I will still go about blindly helping people until they sue me.

Jim
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Old 18-03-2010, 11:08   #43
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By this logic though if a grandmother falls in the middle of the road and you help her to the curb but along the way a car hits you both and she is injured then you are liable. What jury of 12 people would find against someone that was truly helping?

I haven't lost that much faith in my fellow humans that I believe that could really happen nor have I heard a real tale of it happening that didn't have some extenuating circumstances.

I suspect that I will still go about blindly helping people until they sue me.

Jim
LMFHO....
Insurance companies/Charter companies are not 'People'...
and lets face it the Grandmother is a silly anology... your talking people...

The subject is boats... a whole different ball game...

Remember also that people are devious too...
A scam that is operated in the UK involves causing someone to rear end you.. your cars a banger and you've entrapped the other driver..
But as far as the Law and Insurance Companies are concerned he was in the wrong...
So the innocent guy pays out and the other guy walks away with compensation for alleged whiplash and a payout for his wrecked car... which would have failed its next MOT and ended up in a scrapyard anyway.
Real tales abound.. or do I need to post a link for it before I'm believed
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Old 18-03-2010, 11:11   #44
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i still think I trust a jury to recognize someone that is really helping. Until I hear a real example otherwise I will still pick up grandma and tie up her boat.

Jim
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Old 18-03-2010, 11:11   #45
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