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SailRex · 07-04-2019, 10:07

Hello all,

I am looking at acquiring a Oceanis 41.
I have had the boat professionally surveyed but the surveyor was not able to find a hull ID number. It is definitely not in its normal place either on or around at the transom.
The current owner is from Argentina and he does not know where the hull ID number is either.
There is a boat manual that lists the hull ID number along with the engine serial number. The actual serial number stamped to the engine does match the engine serial number in the boat documentation.
I am using a broker in Florida along with a closing company in Florida. How concerned should I be that the whole ID number cannot be located anywhere on the boat?
Thanks in advance for any advice on this issue.

meridian28 · 07-04-2019, 11:17

Run Forest, Run. Could be a stolen boat that had the number ground off and glassed over especially since the engine numbers don’t match.

**GordMay** · 07-04-2019, 11:56

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Rex.
Ask Beneteau ➥ https://www.beneteau.com/en/contact

SailRex · 07-04-2019, 12:43

Thank you for the initial replies. The serial number on the engine DOES matcch the serial number on the documentation.

I will send a message to Beneteau also to see if that can help.

Empty Pockets · 07-04-2019, 13:31

My HIN was very, VERY, hard to find, but we did eventually on the aft starboard corner, right where it’s supposed to be. Try using a flashlight at an angle to the gel coat and see if it shows up. If it’s really not there, I agree you have a problem.

hellosailor · 07-04-2019, 14:03

Rex-
If there is no visible HIN, I can't see that Florida or the USCG would accept the boat and title it. The current owner *must* know something about the HIN, if he has any sort of title to the boat. I can't see that Argentina would issue a title to "anonymous" but if they do, and Beneteau-US can't help you turn it up...Make sure you're also looking at good title insurance. Yes, HINs do legitimately get ground down or painted over, but then someone should know about that.

svlamorocha · 07-04-2019, 14:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by SailRex

Hello all,

I am looking at acquiring a Oceanis 41.
I have had the boat professionally surveyed but the surveyor was not able to find a hull ID number. It is definitely not in its normal place either on or around at the transom.
The current owner is from Argentina and he does not know where the hull ID number is either.
There is a boat manual that lists the hull ID number along with the engine serial number. The actual serial number stamped to the engine does match the engine serial number in the boat documentation.
I am using a broker in Florida along with a closing company in Florida. How concerned should I be that the whole ID number cannot be located anywhere on the boat?
Thanks in advance for any advice on this issue.

You also see the HIN in the metal plate in the cockpit (the one that shows the CE ratings).

Be careful of boat of that size that are only registered at a US state by a foreign owner. That can be an easy way to "get papers" for a boat with "problems".

If the boat is registered in a proper national register like UK Part I you can order a transcript showing all the prior owners and get seller to provide a chain of bills of sale.

meirriba · 08-04-2019, 09:40

There is no B. boat without HIN carved into the hull near the stern.
Only thing I can think of that someone put a layer of gelcoat over the HIN and polished flush.

sazarac · 08-04-2019, 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by meridian28

Run Forest, Run. Could be a stolen boat that had the number ground off and glassed over especially since the engine numbers don’t match.

Didn’t read the post?

**YachtBroker** · 08-04-2019, 10:01

I was a beneteau dealer for 19 years.
There should also be one inscribed in the engine stringers somewhere. Sometimes it's under the athwartship stringer just in front of the engine. Sometimes the batteries are there. Sometimes also you need to remove the flooring to see it.
They are lightly done (inscribed). Hard to read. If there is no HIN, on upper right had hull side all the way aft just under the hull to deck joint, then it's most likely stolen form somewhere. If hull has been repainted this often gets covered up. Look on engine stringers then.

Ferrari · 08-04-2019, 10:35

Ask the owner to check with his insurer. They would have required the number when insurance was requested and granted.
Really close inspection of where it “should be” with a flashlight will probably locate it.

hellosailor · 08-04-2019, 11:27

In the unlikely case that boat was built before 1972, in the US there would have been no mandatory HIN. If built in France, I have no idea. But Beneteau would be able to answer that, as well as saying where any second numbers might or should be.

I don't think I'd take an insurer's statement as gospel on this. All they know is what "someone" told them, it does not mean they got true information.

A sharp broker (dare we say "competent"?) or a repair yard worker should be able to peek and poke and tell pretty certainly IF the hull had been repainted. I've only noted the HIN on one repainted hull, it still showed proud although a heavy gelcoat job certainly could obliterate a lightly stamped one.

Seller wants to sell the boat? Seller isn't a thief, or a victim? OK, whether he's from Argentina or Mars, he should be able to figure out "No one in the US is going to buy this boat without a HIN. Go find it." It is the seller's job to find that, the buyer's job to confirm it. Or, try to find title insurance and registration without one.

Some states will allow registration without numbers, or they'll take paperwork that anyone can create on an inkjet printer leaving a big door open for counterfeit and forgeries. But that's a hell of a risky game on a boat that size, arguably worth the usual 90% discount on fenced stolen goods.

passthetuna · 08-04-2019, 11:31

I made some parts that were placarded with manufacturer, part number, and individual serial number. That still did not stop people from fabricating their own placards with my name, part number, and imaginary serial number. Fraudulent people go to great lengths to dupe others. I believe the boat is the one depicted in the documents because the engine make , model, and serial number matches documentation , and the fact that these documents exist adds verification. Many times stolen stuff has no documentation. Just a good fictional story.