Ethics

[Capt Phil]

I've never been a broker but have bought and sold a number of boats over the years and generally had a good working relationship with brokers because of the referrals I got for deliveries. My experience has been that like in any other profession, there are good, bad and some downright dishonest folks.
I can't imagine a buyer signing an agreement with a broker that would require him to pay any portion of a commission on a purchase. The one exception that I can think of is if a buyer engages the services of a broker to find a particular vessel for him/her and agrees up front on a finders fee of some amount. Normally, a broker who was acting on behalf of a buyer would split the commission with the selling broker, I believe.
As a broker, you might be able to shed some light on that situation. Let me know if I'm off track here. Phil

[David_Old_Jersey]

As said, for OP (as buyer) the arrangements with the Broker not his concern.......but nonetheless I would think carefully before getting too involved without finding out what the Vendors deal is with the Broker (even though none of your business!) as could end being caught in the middle of any dispute between the Vendor and a Broker.

My concern would be that a sale was all good to go (and money / time spent) except the sale gets kyboshed at the last minute by the Vendor getting cold feet / realising he will still need to pay his broker / gets confused over the dispute / suddenly needing a higher sale price (to pay off the Broker!).....of course as a buyer (with an agreement) you could then go legal yourself, but all that aggro and cost - with no guarantee of success. and likely any goodwill dissapearing.

[rancher44]

I am thanking every one for the advice and I think because I contacted the broker first I will have to go thru him . It is more of a moral delima than a legal issue at this point
Thanks again . This may sound corny but I live by keeping my side of the street clean If I go to the owner I am afraid I have a lot of trash on my side. So if I continue to try to buy this boat it will be the broker
Thanks to all

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Maybe a little clarification on how yacht brokerage and listings work is in order.

First, when a boat is sold by a broker there are two separate commissions involved in the sale. One for the broker that listed the boat for sale and another for the broker that sells the boat. Of course if a broker lists the boat and also sells it then that broker will collect both commissions.

Second, boats listed for sale with any broker are generally available for any other broker to sell.

Third, there are two ways to list your boat for sale with a broker, an exclusive or a non-exclusive listing. If you give a broker an exclusive listing you cannot list the boat with another broker and no matter who sells the boat or how the boat is sold, the listing broker will receive at least the listing commission.

With a non-exclusive listing you can list the boat with several brokers if you like and you can also sell the boat on your own. If you sell the boat on your own then you would not have to pay either the listing or selling commission.

Relating this to the OP's question, no matter which type of listing you use, exclusive or non-exclusive, if a broker brings a buyer to the table the owner is ethically and legally obligated to pay commission to that broker if that buyer purchases the boat. Since the OP had found the boat on his own before speaking with a broker, but had not gone to see the boat nor contacted the owner then in my opinion there is some question as to whether or not there is an obligation to the broker.

Their are advantages and disadvantages to both types of listings. If you sign an exclusive listing with a single broker that broker is much more motivated to advertise and aggressively market your boat because s/he is guaranteed to get a share of the commission when the boat sells. A non-exclusive listing allows you to offer the boat through several channels and still try to sell it on your own, plus you don't run the risk of being stuck with a bad broker if you happen to pick a dud.

great explanation. I have considered a non-exclusive before, broker's tend to not like them though and they do none of the multiple listing service, advertising etc they do when they have the exclusive.
As mentioned above, I have had to actually close a deal myself, that a broker started, to save the sale.
Most my Broker experiences ahve been good though. Just dont assume anything, especially that they or their contracts will protect you!

[Capt Phil]

+1, Skipmac... much better explaination than mine. As DOJ pointed out, you have to live with yourself and if you deal ethically with folks and don't try a screw someone over for the sake of a few $, you sleep better and have a bit better class of friends in my experience. Phil

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

great explanation. I have considered a non-exclusive before, broker's tend to not like them though and they do none of the multiple listing service, advertising etc they do when they have the exclusive.
As mentioned above, I have had to actually close a deal myself, that a broker started, to save the sale.
Most my Broker experiences ahve been good though. Just dont assume anything, especially that they or their contracts will protect you!

Choosing which type of listing can be a dilemma. As you mention, giving an exclusive to one broker should give the seller more exposure but if you pick the wrong broker you're locked into a bad situation for the duration of the contract. I do think that there is a higher percentage of bums/idiots/disreputable characters in the brokerage business than in the general population so one does need to be careful choosing a broker.

My bad broker example. I did try shopping with brokers when I bought my last boat. A few never returned my calls and I never bothered to call a second time. I did look at one boat with a broker and called another broker about a listing. Passed on both of the boats but explained carefully what I was looking for: cutter rig, center cockpit, modified fin keel, etc. One broker sent me a listing for an aft cockpit ketch, the other sent one for an aft cockpit, sloop rig, deep draft, racer cruiser. Basically they both sent me listings they wanted to sell instead of the boat I wanted to buy. As a result, neither one got my business.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Capt Phil

+1, Skipmac... much better explaination than mine. As DOJ pointed out, you have to live with yourself and if you deal ethically with folks and don't try a screw someone over for the sake of a few $, you sleep better and have a bit better class of friends in my experience. Phil

Thanks. After a few years in the business I hope I remembered some of the basic details.

I do like to think that I treated all my customers honestly. A frank disclosure of the problems with a few boats lost me a couple of sales but didn't lose the customer.

[sailorboy1]

I was looking at Yachtworld the other day and I don't know where the real problem lays. But based on a lot of boat listings and prices either there is a bad case of owners out of touch with the real world, or there are a lot of brokers who jack up the hopes of sellers!

[rancher44]

I have been looking at buying a boat and the prices for what they are are out of site !! A 40 ft boat 1991 hunter 200K PLEASE
I want a good sloop center cockpit shoal draft good electronics and a dingy.
in the 40-45 ft range I don't mind a 91-95 boat but It must be in good condition . So many of the boats are really trashed and they ask 125 K
I found a couple but I sure want a good survey before I proceed