Do you think recreational boats should be licensed?

[jwing]

All regulations are the product of some people being dipwads and ruining it for the rest of us. That's it; there is no regulation that is an arbitrary rule made so that "Government" can control our lives.

Now, if all boaters were responsible enough to study the the rules of safety and courtesy, we would not need licensing requirements that force them to do so. But in the real world few boaters would be not that responsible.

So, if licensing is required, will there still be dipwads that boat unsafely and discourteously? Of course! But since we know they have knowledge of safe and courteous practice and local rules, we can bust them for it.

On the other hand, most people, when aware of safe and courteous practice and local rules will act accordingly. Licensing ensures awareness, and eliminates accidents that would have been caused by ignorance of the proper way to interact with other boaters.

[jwing]

By the way, I haven't read a valid reason posted for NOT having licensing, especially this one: "I hate government and don't want to give them any more power." Well, we are all like that. Except we are not ideologues about it. We happen to live in a crowded society where a lot of people think they can do whatever they want to do, regardless of how it impacts others. Those are the people that force us to have regulations.

The licensing process is not necessarily expensive or cumbersome to the individual or to state governments. I got licensed in Alabama through an online service that cost....it was so low that I don't even remember. The state sent me a new drivers license with an added code letter that designates boat operator's license. It's a one-time thing. The course was definitely worth it; I learned a lot. I have it downloaded on my computer and review it at the beginning of each sailing season.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by jwing

All regulations are the product of some people being dipwads and ruining it for the rest of us. That's it; there is no regulation that is an arbitrary rule made so that "Government" can control our lives.
...

Long live to Anarchy. By the way when I was 16 I was an anarchist. Lot's of fun!

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Polux

Long live to Anarchy. By the way when I was 16 I was an anarchist. Lot's of fun!

Me too . Then I grew older, and slightly wiser, and learned that there are few issues in this world that are black or white, right or wrong, good or bad. The real world is shades of grey.

[Robin3]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Me too . Then I grew older, and slightly wiser, and learned that there are few issues in this world that are black or white, right or wrong, good or bad. The real world is shades of grey.

50 of them (I'm told)

[Tayana42]

Originally Posted by Robin3

50 of them (I'm told)

I'm at the age that I must have at least 50 shades of grey myself.


S/V B'Shert

[bill352]

Originally Posted by Polux

I don't see any problem seeing that adequate training for every type of sailing will have positive results and would improve safety on the water. That's why sailors that want to learn faster take non compulsory sailing courses on sailing schools, it is why on this forum everybody recommends them to inexperienced sailors that want to learn faster. It is obvious that if the courses are serious after taking them a sailor would be a better, more experienced and safer sailor.

But the guy we're talking about, Mr. Donzi Cigarette, right now doesn't know or care what the rules of the road are. After licensing, he may know, but he still won't care.

That's why I'm with Mike in wanting to see some numbers.

Originally Posted by jwing

So, if licensing is required, will there still be dipwads that boat unsafely and discourteously? Of course! But since we know they have knowledge of safe and courteous practice and local rules, we can bust them for it.

Ignorance of the law is never an excuse. We can bust them for it right now, but we don't.

[jwing]

Originally Posted by bill352

Ignorance of the law is never an excuse. We can bust them for it right now, but we don't.

We do not want to arrest people and we do not want additional laws. The object of licesning is to ensure that everybody is aware of the rules of safety and courtesy. Most people who have that knowledge will choose to do the right thing. The goal is that everybody has a safe and fun time without interaction with law enforcement officials.

[seandepagnier]

So if someone sails to the US but cannot speak english and cannot pass a "boat license" course it is illegal for them to operate their own boat?

Instead consider devoting efforts to removing the requirement for registration. Most countries don't require it. I can't see a reason for it, but can think of several reasons why it's bad.

[Robin3]

Originally Posted by bill352

But the guy we're talking about, Mr. Donzi Cigarette, right now doesn't know or care what the rules of the road are. After licensing, he may know, but he still won't care.

That's why I'm with Mike in wanting to see some numbers.



Ignorance of the law is never an excuse. We can bust them for it right now, but we don't.

Convicted drunk drivers lose their licenses but in Florida still get out on the roads it seems, not that the sober drivers are any better.

When I lived in the UK there was a notorious local nightclub owner who would drive his offshore racing powerboat through Poole harbour at full tilt at night with no lights on. He was fined several times for (harbour limit was 10kts) it but did it stop him? hell no! A the time we had a swinging mooring on the far side of the harbour and going to our boat in the dinghy on a dark evening was quite frightening if this nutter was about. fortunately his steed was so freakin noisy you got some warning to duck and hide behind another moored boat

IS there some kind of gene defect that creates idiots like that? In his other life he went bankrupt several times in different companies yet always popped up in another guise each time.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Polux

I don't see any problem seeing that adequate training for every type of sailing will have positive results and would improve safety on the water. That's why sailors that want to learn faster take non compulsory sailing courses on sailing schools, it is why on this forum everybody recommends them to inexperienced sailors that want to learn faster. It is obvious that if the courses are serious after taking them a sailor would be a better, more experienced and safer sailor.

Many have noted that the powerboaters seem to the worst offenders.

Training should, theoretically, improve safety for all.

But we recommend and many sailors DO take lessons not ONLY because of safety but because sailing is a LOT MORE COMPLICATED than turning a key in a powerboat and zooming off.

That's why.

I learned to sail as a kid, but still took lessons when we bought our first boat here many years later. We took four lessons together on three different boats and then the last one on our own boat. Gave us a lot more confidence.

But NONE of those lessons had ANYTHING to do with Inland or Colregs. They simply taught us how to sail the boat.

All of the navigation/R&R stuff I learned, voluntarily, by reading. Books, before the internet.

All a new boater has to do is read BoatSafe.com - Boating Safety, Boating Courses, Boating Articles. It would take a week's effort at the most.

Think any of the buzz boat blow boaters bother?

Disclaimer: I have a bunch of friends who have nice motor yachts. THEY have done their own homework and research. I believe the statistics indicate the little buzz toy boats are the greatest contributors to boating non-safety.

But ask yourselves: How many times on this and other boating forums have we, as respondents to their questions, asked the OP to do some of his own research and homework and read a couple of books?

There are many,many books on how to operate a powerboat, too.

The other issue is just who to test. I think the phased in approach makes most sense.

[bill352]

Originally Posted by jwing

We do not want to arrest people and we do not want additional laws. The object of licesning is to ensure that everybody is aware of the rules of safety and courtesy. Most people who have that knowledge will choose to do the right thing. The goal is that everybody has a safe and fun time without interaction with law enforcement officials.

Can't argue with that. Problem remains - what do you do about those who do not choose to do the right thing?

[jwing]

Originally Posted by bill352

Can't argue with that. Problem remains - what do you do about those who do not choose to do the right thing?

Shoot them. The world will be a better place without them. Then put a few bullet holes in their boats and sink them.



Regarding registration:

The only real reason for requiring registration is to collect a tax. If the tax is placed into the general fund, I believe that it and registration should be abolished.

However, I would rather pay a registration tax, and have that money go toward maintenance and operation of the state's boating infrastructure and search-and-rescue, than to have those costs borne by everybody (including all non-boaters) through general taxes.

[RickD]

No. Enough laws. Enough stupid taxes. Enough forcing "certifications" for crap (like IT, like network security, like electronics, like about anything). The whole certification/licensing thing is a nasty bit of money making for governments and the US Government has picked up on it big time. Pretty soon, without a license you won't even be able to use a public rest room. NO.

[barnakiel]

I think if we were to stray into the dead end alley of licensing every human activity ...

I would propose the licenses are temporal and have to be renewed (say every two years or so).

There is no way someone who got their license 10 years ago remembers more than 10% of what the required knowledge was back then. Hence, the license is at this point worth as much as a roll of toilet paper.

And those of us who took the license 10 years ago and who can sit the exam any day now and pass ... well, actually this group of operators do not need the license in the first place.

So, to sum up, I think now that we should either call all this licensing humbug quits OR ELSE stick with it but make the licenses last only a limited time: a year, maybe two.

To each their own ""

Cheers,
b.